Woofer for a 3 ways...

Hello,

I have a two-way bass reflex with 6"+1" Peerless drivers and I'm wondering to add a woofer or a sub and cross it about on 200/300hz. Also, I'm looking for some new project, starting with a 2 ways KIT. I can measure and use ARTA (if I remember how to do...) but I'm not so skilled in electronic so I prefer to start with a two-way KIT and add a woofer on my own.

So, the woofer I'm looking for, will first play with my Peerles mid/tw and then maybe... with new Satori or Scan mid-woofer.
What I am looking for is a good 10" woofer for sealed enclosure of max 40/50 litres (1,7cu ft), it would be active with 250W amp and DSP, it has to go up, say, to 500hz. I don't need deeeeep bass and high SPL, just 40hz with good transients and the ability to blend well with a 5" or 6" mid. As I use an active amp ... sensibility is not the main problem, I think.
I'm trying to simulate some Wavecor, WF275BD01 seems to be good but F3 is about 50Hz, if I find something that goes deeper is better. There is also Wavecor SW223BD02s (and SW270WA01)but I don't know if they reproduce well mid-bass frequencies, an what about CSS SDX10 ?

Any advices?

Thanks!
 
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The SB29NRX75-8 is a beast of a 10" driver, with a 75mm voice coil, and Xmax of 11mm. In a 40 liter sealed box, you could add a + 6 dB Linkwitz Transform EQ with DSP and extend the bass flat down to 35 Hz. It plays nice up past 500 Hz...

Your plan to start with a 2-way, and then add an active woofer with DSP crossover is a good plan. If the woofer cabinet is going to be separately located from the 2-way, I recommend you cross at 200 Hz or below, and keep the distance reasonably close. If you intend to stack the 2-way on top of the woofer cabinet, you can cross a bit higher.
 
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..cosidering that it will be active DSP

Seas L26ROY

Don't let the fact that it is a subwoofer dissuade you - its decay is very clean up to and beyond 500 Hz.

You will need a high current (and high power) amp powering it for best results: something like a Crown XLS.
 
Hello, thank you for all your suggestions!
I'm looking to all datasheets and later I will simulate all the drivers on 50 litres sealed enclosure, taking in account also the... price, Wavecor WF275BD01 is too expensive, 360 euros. I would like to stay around 200-250 euros. Dayton RSS265HF-4 seems to be a very nice one. Also like Seas and SB...
About DSP, I know I can add 6db on lowers freq, just wonder if it worsens transient response... I don’t' know, but of course I will try. What are the parameters to look for an articulated mid-bass reproduction, mms, BxL... CSD waterfall?
 
Hi, FYI, for 50 litre closed box many 12" or 15" drivers fit as well, and potentially have more max output if that is something useful.

For example the wavecor you mention seems to bottom out with 30Watts in 50 litre enclosure. You could put it into ~10litre box to use all your amp power, or four of them to the 50litre box. Or, put a 12" or 15" to the 50 litre cab, pour in all your amp power and get mo max output. Mo power is mo heat so what feels nice compromise to you. DSP allows quite much flexibility.

Old beyma 15k200 can do ~10db more at 40Hz on the 50litre box with 250W amp, than the wavecor above. Wavecor falls short due to small cone area and xmax. Its good for smaller box though. Blue dotted line is wavecor in the same 50litre sealed box hitting xmax, black line 15" driver with 250W watts you have.
 

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About DSP, I know I can add 6db on lowers freq, just wonder if it worsens transient response...
The transient response of a sealed box woofer system is mostly determined by the system Q, i.e. Qtc. The natural woofer/box Qtc is combined with the effects of the DSP EQ to come up with a new Qtc. For example, if the natural woofer/box Qtc = 0.85, F3 = 50 Hz, and then EQ is applied which transforms the system so that Qtc = 0.7, F3 = 35 Hz, then the overall system performance will be the same as if the non-EQ'd response was Qtc = 0.7 F3 = 35. In my experience, group delay is improved with a LT transform EQ.

When applying an LT EQ, you need to have a woofer with enough displacement capability and power handling, and you need more amplifier power than you otherwise would.
 
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Thank you again for all the inputs :)

I've tried to quick simulate all the woofers we are talking about... of course, for what I understand, F3 is not the more important parameter but, just for having an idea, Dayton RSS265HF 4 and Wavecor SW270WA01 go lower than other drivers, F3 is about 40hz.
Scan Speak 26W/4534 and 26W/4558 are doing well, F3 is about 46hz.

For SB, Satori WO24P-4 and SB29NRX75-8, F3 is about 50hz.

I've tried also Seas A26RE4 with an F3 of 50hz, and SS 26W/8534G00 but they need more volume, so Qtc is more than 0,7, especially SS26W.

Checked also EBP ...
Dayton Audio RSS265HF-4 EBP 48,3
Wavecor SW270WA01 EBP 51,9
Seas A26RE4 EBP 58,1
Scan-Speak 26W/4534G00 EBP 62,2
Scan-Speak 26W/4558T00 EBP 63,6
SB Acoustics SATORI WO24P-4 EBP 66,6
SB Acoustics SB29NRX75-8 EBP 67,0

About the plate amp, I was thinking at Hypex FA251, 250w.
 
Hi, I'm reading some threads about all these woofers :) It will take some time and reflection, I think that what I'm looking for is really a good, even very good :) bass articulation between 40hz and 300hz. Of course, X-max could help improving deep bass by DSP, but that's not the main objective. What I lack in my system, a BR tuned to 38hz with 6" Peerless, is not the deep bass but transient and articulation, as amp I have My-ref C, about 20 m2.

Some members say that SB29NRX75-8 is very good in the pure bass domain but maybe not so “alive” in mid-bass frequencies, still other persons love it. SATORI WO24P-4 maybe is a little better for this application?

Also, Peerless NE265W-04 seems to be a nice woofer, more than one people here in DIY prefer it to ones by SB Acoustics as mid-bass. Someone has ever listened to it?

I’ve not found many information about Dayton RSS… nor about Wavecor W270 used up to 300hz.

Just trying to understand T&S parameter, I know that they’re valid only about Fs but, as once I listened to Dynaudio MTM and I loved it, I was looking at their T&S, particularly at Esotar MW182: low Mms and not lowest Cms. The 10” wf here that has this characteristic is WO24P-4 (Mms 42, Cms 0.77, Qts 0.40). Satori wf and Dayton wf are opposite “philosophy” in regard of T&S, I don’t know if it says something about sound 😊
 
Hi, I'm reading some threads about all these woofers :) It will take some time and reflection, I think that what I'm looking for is really a good, even very good :) bass articulation between 40hz and 300hz. Of course, X-max could help improving deep bass by DSP, but that's not the main objective. What I lack in my system, a BR tuned to 38hz with 6" Peerless, is not the deep bass but transient and articulation, as amp I have My-ref C, about 20 m2.
40-300Hz is 90% room acoustics. Not driver quality. Try to improve your speaker placement, listening position or work on electro-acoustic measures like EQing, employment of multi sub solutions, active or passive bass traps. No big driver in no big enclosure alone is going to improve that frequency domain, only reinforcing acoustic problems in the room. Just my 2 ct.
 
40-300Hz is 90% room acoustics. Not driver quality.
yes. It is true that there are differences in how drivers sound, but these differences only become important if everything else is perfect. Any of the 10" woofers you are considering could work well, but the execution is what will make it a success or not.

Just to pull on that thread; You mentioned the Satori WO24P. That is a very nice driver, very well thought of. If you made a quality cabinet, and integrated the woofer with the right crossover, using accurate measurements, you could achieve very high performance. But if the cabinet has flaws, the measurements are done wrong, the crossover is poorly designed... then the quality of that woofer means nothing.

So your focus should be first on getting all the basics done right. As I said earlier, your project has a lot of potential... take your time, learn how to do it right.
 
10" sealed
Easy

Cast Frame , Dual Spider which is vented, low inductance copper sleeve /cap
Dayton UM10-22
1684997303470.png

1684997340372.png


Just stack your mid/tweet cab on that.

The apparent inductance is very low with the copper sleeve.
So crossover and and detail to 250 Hz very realistic.

You could easily use a 5" or 4" mid
which makes the tweeter much easier to cross over