Highly. Skilled listeners can distinguish minuscule changes in frequency response, pitch, level, compression, timing, and localization under ears-only conditions. For example, in extensive testing at Harman, listeners showed remarkable consistency in detecting differences in tonal balance and polar pattern- preferences were highly correlated. See Floyd Toole's superb book on the subject. Read Earl Geddes's papers on distortion and polar pattern sensitivity.
Our ears are remarkable. No need to peek and allow other senses to influence them when doing evaluation.
Hi Eduardo,
I can appreciate your dilemma, not having a ready source of component parts. Yuo can try to scavenge parts. For example, I found cheap 6' RCA cables at a general store for USD 1.00. I stripped the out insulation and had four 6' strands of signal cable. I've also purchased an pre-amp kit from eBay to have a store of common components (capacitors, voltage regulators with heat sinks, etc.). This has worked well for me.
IMO: you should be using signal cable for instead of the 14 gauge. I am assuming it is common house wiring which is solid core here in the USA. Signal cable will be stranded. This would lessens skin effect as there is more surface area per gauge. But at the frequencies and power levels for line level signals, skin effect is not a material concern. Do twist the wires. Use two separate wires for each ground of the left and right channel and twist each ground wire with its corresponding signal (left and right channel). Look up "twisted Pair" in the online library: Wikipedia. Twisted pair is for high frequency digital signals but the technique works very well for audio signals.
Regards,
Michael
I can appreciate your dilemma, not having a ready source of component parts. Yuo can try to scavenge parts. For example, I found cheap 6' RCA cables at a general store for USD 1.00. I stripped the out insulation and had four 6' strands of signal cable. I've also purchased an pre-amp kit from eBay to have a store of common components (capacitors, voltage regulators with heat sinks, etc.). This has worked well for me.
IMO: you should be using signal cable for instead of the 14 gauge. I am assuming it is common house wiring which is solid core here in the USA. Signal cable will be stranded. This would lessens skin effect as there is more surface area per gauge. But at the frequencies and power levels for line level signals, skin effect is not a material concern. Do twist the wires. Use two separate wires for each ground of the left and right channel and twist each ground wire with its corresponding signal (left and right channel). Look up "twisted Pair" in the online library: Wikipedia. Twisted pair is for high frequency digital signals but the technique works very well for audio signals.
Regards,
Michael
(I did the experiment, it's published on this forum)Stranded has no effect on skin effects, you need litz wire for that...
Litz wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Twisting wires together is to increase its susceptibility to EMC, common mode noise. For low level analogue I still have a preference for co-ax cable for single ended, twisted pair (or balanced routing) works best with true differential signals. But twisted is way better than not twisting if you use normal cored cable, it reduces any loop area and ensures the signal and its return are in intimate contact electrically.
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The test is not "do I hear what someone else hears" but "do X and Y sound different to me". If they (reliably) sound different to me then we can ask questions like "which do I prefer" or even "which sounds most like a real piano".davym said:
When such tests are done the usual results are:
- small differences cannot be detected by ears alone, no matter how confident (in advance) people are that the difference can be detected by ears alone (on the basis of their own earlier 'ears-plus' tests)
- larger differences (detectable by ears alone) may result in some people preferring the output which is less like the input
In order:
Yes. Often. Of course. Yes- sensory panels tasting under DBT conditions is standard in the food and beverage industry. Bye.
I believe the kind of wire used is audible, even a few inches can be heard. To hear for your self, compare very small gage stranded silver plated copper in Teflon, to large gage solid copper in PVC. 20GA seems to be the best GA size for audio runs inside equipment.
Don't take anyone's posting as the final word, try wire types and sizes for your self and then decide what YOU like the best.
Don't take anyone's posting as the final word, try wire types and sizes for your self and then decide what YOU like the best.
I have no problem with a belief, as long as it's stated as such. But in your example what are you comparing? Wire guage, metal or different triboelectric effects of the insulators? Changing 3 things at once how can you tell where the magic is?
Note: if you believe in these things, teflon is baaaad. Bring back cotton braided wire.. Oh they have
Note: if you believe in these things, teflon is baaaad. Bring back cotton braided wire.. Oh they have
I was just trying to give a example of wires that would give an easily heard difference when listened to. Its hard to find two different kind of wires with only one difference between them.
I believe wire choice can make or break the sound of a piece of equipment. Others might feel differently, and that's ok.
I believe wire choice can make or break the sound of a piece of equipment. Others might feel differently, and that's ok.
If this was so we would have to factor cables and PCB traces into the circuit diagram as components just like we do with resistors caps etc, this does not happen and for short runs of cable as long as the added parasitic elements are within defined specs and EMC concerns catered for there will be no noticeable difference.
This is becoming rather silly... I have posted two replies with some fact based things to look out for when wiring electronics up (as have others), ignored probably because they are based on engineering problems and not voodoo...
I would like your explanation on how wire can have such an effect for a few inches of cable.....
As opposed to choosing actual components active or passive.... How do we factor in routes on a PCB?
No, it's not. Either there's a difference in the sound, or there isn't. Which means some people are wrong, and some are right. Which is OK. It's not a question of feelings, and it's not a question of preventing hurt feelings. This isn't like they try to make schools now, 'everyone's a winner.' Science isn't a question of compromising by adopting the position that offends everybody least.
Right... ...wrong.
Looking at this another way, if a short wire can have a noticeable effect on sound what properties of the wire do we factor into our calculations when designing equipment, apart from resistance, capacitance and inductance (conductance if you want as well...) some that are dependant on the cables construction, what are the other factors of concern...
We have not yet devised ways to measure and explain everything about how electrical conductors sound. If all cable and wire sounded the same then there would be only one kind of wire that we would use. The experience of enjoying audio is subjective, what makes you happy with your system, might not make someone else happy.
I wish I could tell you all the answers for wire, but I cannot, no one can. So why not try different wire and use the one that makes you happy? The whole reason we listen to music is to change the way we feel. Find a wire that makes you feel good listening to your music. Who cares what someone else thinks? Its your enjoyment that matters.
I wish I could tell you all the answers for wire, but I cannot, no one can. So why not try different wire and use the one that makes you happy? The whole reason we listen to music is to change the way we feel. Find a wire that makes you feel good listening to your music. Who cares what someone else thinks? Its your enjoyment that matters.
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