I had a quick scan through and might have missed something but if the speakers were working correctly they should have sounded great with the original passive crossover /set up. My understanding was the OP wasn't happy with them either way round.
He should at least have ended up with these speakers in passive mode easily outperforming his B and Ws IMO.
Not sure I understand your point. The speakers did not work correctly but we don't know why because the OP wouldn't perform any diagnostic tests to find out what was wrong. For me this human side is the most interesting aspect of the thread. I expect whatever was wrong with the speakers would have been easy to fix for many of the readers here if the OP had provided some information about the problem rather than stating it sounding terrible compared to his B&Ws.
I'm more or less agreeing with you bug making theoint that:
-the OP had the original crossover mounted externally at one stage so it was very easy to hook up an amp and hear what these pesters are capable of in passive mode. Used in this way they should still have bettered the B and Ws
-there was obviously the usual chaos at Wilmslow's end: the same crossover for models using different mid drivers, the curious capacitor in series etc, and the even more curious connect the mid unit out of phase by the time I got my kit in early 2014
But yes sad the problems were not resolved as that's the fun in this hobby
-the OP had the original crossover mounted externally at one stage so it was very easy to hook up an amp and hear what these pesters are capable of in passive mode. Used in this way they should still have bettered the B and Ws
-there was obviously the usual chaos at Wilmslow's end: the same crossover for models using different mid drivers, the curious capacitor in series etc, and the even more curious connect the mid unit out of phase by the time I got my kit in early 2014
But yes sad the problems were not resolved as that's the fun in this hobby
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I agree I have heard several of these and they are at least excellent if set up properly.
I was also told by WA that they were supplying one type of crossover with three versions of the speaker "because that's what customers seem to prefer". I tried mine in passive crossover mode (external to the boxes) for several months and have now gone active (although only with a std Behringer CX3400) and they sound good either way. Since I have the passive crossovers from WA's original demo pair it makes me wonder which I have!? Does anyone know how I can tell?
It wasn't that I didn't perform any measurements, I couldn't. The computer made so much noise that the results were meaningless.
I never did try the active crossovers, all comments were with the components as supplied by WA.
Also, if you read the thread fully you will see that I was looking for a DIY kit that would work straight out of the box.
I never did try the active crossovers, all comments were with the components as supplied by WA.
Also, if you read the thread fully you will see that I was looking for a DIY kit that would work straight out of the box.
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To be fair to Wilmslow both mine and my friends work very well once built. There were just some alarming QC issues to deal with and now the enduring question for me of what my crossover is actually doing and whether it needs optimising for my non standard bass and treble drivers
If the crossover you're using is designed for different drivers then it's very likely that your crossover needs adjusting.
Did the speakers your friend built have exactly the same drivers as you are using? I must say that my passive crossovers from WA are poorly constructed (to say the least) and these were WA's own demo pair!
My friend uses the same drivers and it was hearing his that 'sold' me on the Prestiges. He's using different cabs tho, but with the same volume.
My crossovers arrived with the caps on one unsoldered plus the instruction to connect the mid driver out of phase.
I'm sure mounting the crossover on wood with better layout will help as with the mid /treble disconnected I can stil hear crosstalk from the tweeter
My crossovers arrived with the caps on one unsoldered plus the instruction to connect the mid driver out of phase.
I'm sure mounting the crossover on wood with better layout will help as with the mid /treble disconnected I can stil hear crosstalk from the tweeter
That's interesting, which cabs does he use? There was an older design (with sloping front and two bass ports) but the person I bought mine from said they sounded the same. I believe the volume was the same to preserve bass response but the ports went from two to one in number. Crazy stuff with the crossovers, if yours are like mine it would take quite a lot of effort to verify the wiring! That's very interesting re the crosstalk, I have a pair of B&W M801 and they suffer from cross talk due to the (crossover) inductor alignment on the board. Apparently if they are not parallel the problem goes away....
Do you know how the volume of the box and the dimensions of the port compare with your WA boxes? In fact, do you know how he calculated the port size?
You should know the Wilmslow philosophy by now: one size fits all! So 70l and same port as the Prestiges
It's really a shame about Wilmslow. I believe that their designs were done by someone who did know what he was doing but he left the company some time ago and it appears that they lost a lot of expertise when he went. There are some bass reflex design s/w packages around (I expect someone on diyaudio has one) that can tell you the port length and diameter required for various levels of bass extension if the T&S parameters and box size are used. Volt supply box size and port size for several common configurations if asked. It might be worth asking Monacor for this data? Or maybe your friend already has it?
The ATC 12" inch requires 100litres to work properly. The ATC SCM100 has a 105 litre enclosure tuned to 27hz with a 100mm dia port😉
I was under the impression that the ATC 12" driver is an ATC designed and made device? Juancho is using a Monacor SPH300CT in his design. Or is there some link between the Monacor and ATC that I'm not aware of?
What has an ATC bass got to do with a Monacor? I repeat my friends speakers which are identical to mine sound great in his place. The demo ones sounded great at WA premises.
My current quest is to understand what that crossover is doing and whether it is optimised.
The fact that WA stated the mid should be connected out of phase when it clearly sounds better in phase is pretty good evidence they don't really know what they are doing. But I'm not challenging the cabs or my choice of drivers which I love.
My current quest is to understand what that crossover is doing and whether it is optimised.
The fact that WA stated the mid should be connected out of phase when it clearly sounds better in phase is pretty good evidence they don't really know what they are doing. But I'm not challenging the cabs or my choice of drivers which I love.
Juanco, which drivers were fitted in WA's demo speakers? They don't seem to offer Prestige speakers as standard with anything other than Volt Radial bass drivers. I'm sure your Monacors are very good but I still think you would do well to check the port design for their use in this box.
There's no mileage in that route. WA use the Volt unit which has a drier studio bass sound. I chose Monacor as it is punchier. My speakers don't have a bass problem or indeed much of a problem at all. To reiterate I just want to know what that crossover I'd doing before I change it to wood mounting and better component orientation. As that's a chance to upgrade the in line mid cap I don't want to do this until I'm sure it is correct. Unfortunately all the software runs on PCs and I am a Mac user
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