will the REAL Peerless please stand up

1. the 201 is the same speaker i spied at the factory along with Infinity Phantom series.

2. is there nothing Peerless Denmark can do or will do about this?
if they are idle then there will be a Vifa India or ScanSpeak China and then the problem will get bigger.

3. Peerless India has already extracted whatever milage they could since as you say people know about Peerless India's trademark infringement and misleading marketing most manufacturers know about this and will choose who they want to trade with.

4. Peerless India claims to have design facilities in Denamrk etc... how much of this is true? I wonder. As an Indian I am very ashamed about the actions taken by Peerless India.

5. As a DIY this is not very good. How many resellers and driver retailers know the difference and if they do do they inform their customers. Do they have to? They can always claim they have been misled.
 

Well - I reckon theres little problem with the retailers. Generally it seems people do their homework on the net and on the official sites. If the models are different and/or specs, it appears hobbyists will soon spot an inconsistency, and investigate it further.

People (at least on this forum) seem to even know what they're looking for before they contact any store regarding purchasing the components.

 

kelticwizard

diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
2001-09-18 2:33 am
Connecticut, The Nutmeg State
navin said:
Peerless India claims to have design facilities in Denmark etc... how much of this is true? I wonder. As an Indian I am very ashamed about the actions taken by Peerless India.

I imagine Peerless India started off as a subsididary of Peerless in Denmark, then became independent. If they continue to make certain models that were designed by Peerless Denmark, then I don't think it is particularly misleading for them to claim they had "design facilities in Denmark".

For all we know, it could have been a cordial parting, with Peerless of Denmark possibly continuing to do research and testing on Peerless of India products.

One possible scenario, completely speculative on my part. Peerless could have opened the Peerless of India facility to make certain models, then after years of operation decided to close the plant. Certain Indian employees decide to buy the plant from Peerless, who gives them a special price because of their relationship to the Danish company. As part of the deal, Peerless of Denmark allows them to keep the Peerless of India name and even contracts with them to do design and testing work at their Denmark location. Just a guess on my part.

I do know that in America, employees have been known to buy plants that were slated to be closed by the parent company, so that could be the case here. The whole thing might be with Peerless of Denmark's blessing.

I imagine we won't have to worry about ScanSpeak of China unless ScanSpeak decides to open up a Chinese facility and it becomes independent later on.

Even so, it is good for you to point out that the two companies are not, or at least are no longer, the same.
 
Hmmmm, kind of reminds me of the PTONEER or PHONIX (copycat for PIONEER) loudspeakers widely available here. Also labels with the "Design in Japan" or "Design in USA" (notice the word "Design" and not "Designed") words emblazoned in silver letterings........ I suspect they are made in China..... or even locally here...... Some guys sure know how to make a quick buck.
 
Peerless-India?

Hi All,
I visited the Peerless India factory in Mumbai a few years ago to collect a technical data sheet on their speakers. I had informed them that I would be visiting them. They made me wait in the lobby for over an hour and then told me that 'the boss' was busy with foreigners. I never got to meet him or get the data sheets. The secretary told me that it would be mailed to me but I never received it. Pretty shoddy treatment for a DIY person.
Their speakers are coated with some shiny layer which is tasty for some insects and I have had several drivers with small holes eaten into them - right through the cone paper !I will of course never buy them again.
If you buy these units better coat them with insect repellant.
 

kelticwizard

diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
2001-09-18 2:33 am
Connecticut, The Nutmeg State
Re: Peerless-India?

Fantastic said:
Their speakers are coated with some shiny layer which is tasty for some insects and I have had several drivers with small holes eaten into them - right through the cone paper !.....If you buy these units better coat them with insect repellant.

LOL! Boy, I have to admit, that's a new one. I never heard of anything like that before!
 
Peerless India

The two companies have the same name. They might have the same name since I heard that for a time in the 80's that the owner of Peerless India actually owned Peerless Denmark? I don't think that Peerless India is trying to mislead anyone but I can understand the confusion. I have not seen them using the same logo. Peerless India employs a widely respected Danish driver designer who used to work for Vifa and Peerless Denmark. This explains their Denmark research lab and some of the designs being similar. Tweeter faceplates for example.

Martyn
 
I suspect Martyn is right.

I also suspect that Peerless India (PI) is using this now defunct relationship to mislead the public if not technically, morally. Often they will claim to have more going on in Denamrk that they have.

BTW
1. How did PI buy out PD? India's foriegn exchange regulation were very strict untill very recently.;)
2. How come when I finally managed to get specs for PI's drivers I got a xerox of specs for PD's driver?
3. Did PI or it's owners attempt to get other designers as well?
4. What is the relationship with Infiinity (I saw teh Phantom series being made at PI) and PI?

Martyn do you know more. Enquiring minds want to know. :)
 

percy

Member
2004-04-25 5:47 pm
CA
Nonsense!

I dont think it is fair to just accuse any company like that. First atleast be well informed before making your statements public.

They dont claim to be associated with Peerless at all. In fact they clearly mention it on their website (quoted below) that they were in union with Fabrikkerne of Denmark and then split.

....Established in 1977 as a joint venture between Peerless Fabrikkerne A/S (Denmark) and Damodar Ratha to manufacture high-end drivers, Peerless India became an independent company in 1983

Nor is their logo anywhere closer to the Peerless you are referring to !! Where did you get that ??!! :bigeyes:
 
i dont know if any of u guys saw their adverising or catalogs in the late 80s and mid 90s. i might still have some of those caalogs which we virtual photocopies of the Peerless catalog with only their address being changed. However when inspecting their product it was no way close to he quality i had seen sold under the peerless brand from A&S and Madisound in the US.
 

yugaaa

Member
2002-01-26 12:41 pm
india
This is horrifying for me ,at least .I thought peerless India was a subsidiary of peerless dennmark.

Now ,I got something to take up with Thankacchan of power electronics .

I too had a lot of probs with peerless ,i had requested them for a catalogue ,and driver specs ,but ,they never sent them ,nor replied to my mail.

I finally got to use Beyma ,and I shud say ,i got all the help from GM audio.

Pathetic enough ,power electronics also use the beyma drivers for their "high-end" systems rather than peerless .Thats what I found out from GM .

Now ,I am looking forward to try a bookshelf using drivers from Beyma ,anyone else interested ?

http://profesional.beyma.com/ENGLISH/producto.php

Thats the link
 
ok this is peerless india information as best i know.

Damodar Ratha owns and runs Peerless Fabrikkerne India Ltd. Peerless Fab.... (PFIL in short) claims it has a marketing office in UK, Italy, Germany, Canada and the USA and R&D in Copenhagen Denmark.

DST for the record is based in Videbaek Denmark which is quite a way from Copenhagen. PFIL also claims it has assembly units in Plymouth (UK) and Phoenix (AZ - USA). I know they have a large factory in Bombay (now called Mumbai) India.

I understand (from other soruces) that Damodar was (many years ago) involved with Peerless Denmark (before it became part of the DST group) and maybe tried to use it's trademarks on the products manufactuered by him in India.

Atleast I know for sure that there was some product with the Peerless Trademark (a 10" woofer that i bought for about $30) that did not LOOK like something I would expect to be produced by Peerless Denmark being sold in Bombay. Like I said I even bought a 10" woofer that was supposed to be a Peerless 831727 but did not measure even close to the T/S specs (using LMS) and was poorly made to boot. BTW I bought 4 pcs and all 4 measured reasonably close to each other but very far (more than 50%) from the published specs.

I have tried like hell to get Peerless to sell me something but so far it has not been successful. Damodar on one instance even promised me free samples of the T26 tweeter on with website (www.peerlessaudio.com) but so far has not responded. I am not looking for free handouts but I would be delighted to see any India manufacturer produce and sell consistent bathes of drivers that are as good as the best the world has.

PFIL has put India on the map for drivers. I understand that Infinity, JPW, AR etc. all use PFIL drivers and some speakers like Infinity's Phantom series is even made in India. The Mukherjees of Sonodyne India (another large indian audio company based in Calcutta) hold Damodar in high regard and with good reason. PFIL I understand is probably the closest and Indian company has come to establsihing itself as an International brand (also PFIL does provide Sonodyne with drivers).

I have seen PFIL's products recently (seen NOT heard) and they look a lot better made than than 10" woofer I bought many years ago. I am yet to get a chance to play with them so untill then I cant publish any findings and I will reserve my judgement till then.

In future we shoud disguish the 2 companies by calling the Indian one PFIL and the Danish one PDST. I can be sure that PFIL is NOT using PDST's trademark currently. I however cannto be sure that products like I encountered (the 10" woofer mentioned above) are still not available via unscruplous or ignorant channels.
 
I just ordered 4 Peerless drivers from this guy
http://stores.ebay.com/Jinsanity-cool-custom-speakers_W0QQsspagenameZl2QQtZkm

The price was right, and in the photo he sent me, you could clearly see 'Made in Denmark' on the back.
I've been out of the hobby for awhile, and was planning some projects over the winter.
I guess we'll see how this turns out.
Does anybody know about this guy??