Well, I do have thousands of LPs... a nice very upgraded Linn table... oh... wait... I'm op amp rolling the P3...
OK... nevermind...
But I gotta tell you, I've been running the Topping D90 and the Nitsch Pietus Maximus off the WiiM Ultra and they sound REALLY good.
Sure, it's a PITA, but, but, but... it sounds very good. Once it's set up it sounds really good, and unlike an Apple "solution" I know how it works.
When it comes to digital, often times you are much better off breaking it up into its many parts so that the obsolence is contained. If you put all your eggs into one basket, well, sure you can enjoy the music, but when they upgrade to v14.6 and you find that v12.1 is not longer supported you will have to buy the whole thing again.
😛
And IT.... my house has 1600 linear feet of Cat5E, three managed switches with Spanning Tree, three wireless (WiFi) access points, 120TB of NAS storage...
I know more about "IT" than the IT guys will ever know. So, that's not an issue.
OK... nevermind...
But I gotta tell you, I've been running the Topping D90 and the Nitsch Pietus Maximus off the WiiM Ultra and they sound REALLY good.
Sure, it's a PITA, but, but, but... it sounds very good. Once it's set up it sounds really good, and unlike an Apple "solution" I know how it works.
When it comes to digital, often times you are much better off breaking it up into its many parts so that the obsolence is contained. If you put all your eggs into one basket, well, sure you can enjoy the music, but when they upgrade to v14.6 and you find that v12.1 is not longer supported you will have to buy the whole thing again.
😛
And IT.... my house has 1600 linear feet of Cat5E, three managed switches with Spanning Tree, three wireless (WiFi) access points, 120TB of NAS storage...
I know more about "IT" than the IT guys will ever know. So, that's not an issue.
Last edited:
Note this comparison.. between the WiiM Ultra and the Eversolo DMPA6.
Spoiler... notice the comment towards the end about using an external DAC with the Ultra...
Spoiler... notice the comment towards the end about using an external DAC with the Ultra...
It seems to me that whatever works better for you and is easier to use is "better." Sound quality seems to be a second priority. With this in mind, a WiiM Ultra with an embedded amplifier would make sense. Then, you throw everything else away.
Even better, place everything inside the speakers. A power cable to each speaker and an ethernet link between the speakers.
Simple, elegant.
Even better, place everything inside the speakers. A power cable to each speaker and an ethernet link between the speakers.
Simple, elegant.
tl;dr Joining at the end of this thread. I separate the two functions; the Streamer and the DAC. I own a WIIM Ultra. I went for what seemed the better supported UI and the features I needed with digital out, because that goes into my dspNexus [used for XO, DSP, DACs, preamp, etc].
I don't want an actual computer in my living room, so an ethernet/hdmi/etc into digi out (in this case SPDIF but USB would have been preferrable) is my solution, thus a streamer. I don't believe in differences in modern digi out as audible.
I don't want an actual computer in my living room, so an ethernet/hdmi/etc into digi out (in this case SPDIF but USB would have been preferrable) is my solution, thus a streamer. I don't believe in differences in modern digi out as audible.
Well, this is now getting into details - more boxes, more interconnects - things get complicated. This means straight away that you care about the actual sound. Maybe these streamers are not for you after all.
How/why... well, with good DACs, their USB interfaces are ground isolated at either end - hence, that "modern digi-out" makes a huge difference:
a) the interconnecting cable quality becomes very important - it suddenly carries the current required to power up that USB interface.
b) the source Vbus becomes extremely important... and here we go... is the streamer Vbus quality good enough? Not if it contains an SMPS... right?
... better just get one box... and be happy. But what if the actual sound quality is really important to you, AND you can hear the differences? You're in trouble - that's what happens!!! 🙂
Most DACs don't get their power from the USB. They isolate their electrical interfaces from their power supplies.
I'm enjoying using the WiiM Ultra because of it makes my chromebook and android devices bit perfect. In reality, I don't expect I'll use its DAC much.
Likely only in the HT as I can take its analog outputs directly into the analog eight channel preamp... but I could always take its digital outputs and drive them to the surround decoder and use that interface.
But this set up is for my wife... in HT turns on the preamp, which turns on the amp. Then she presses the remote in the WiiM and then connects with her Samsung phone and Tidal. She already does this in her home office set up...
Elsewhere, the WiiM Ultra will be just a bit perfect interface... except where I already run a PC directly into the DAC.
I don't have an issue with a PC in every room.... mostly I've migrated into MFF little boxes or laptops so they don't make too much of an impact. And the big TV displays are also the displays for those machines... except, did you know you can use Remote Desktop with an Android Tablet?
In a perfect world, their would be a WiiM Ultra Streamer with a plug in DAC option. But then the price would likely skyroket and cost as much as the Eversolo.
Oh.. @Extreme_Boky More boxes, more interconnects.... Hmm... so, my preamp to a BA3B to a pair of bridged monos... hmmm too many boxes?
I'm enjoying using the WiiM Ultra because of it makes my chromebook and android devices bit perfect. In reality, I don't expect I'll use its DAC much.
Likely only in the HT as I can take its analog outputs directly into the analog eight channel preamp... but I could always take its digital outputs and drive them to the surround decoder and use that interface.
But this set up is for my wife... in HT turns on the preamp, which turns on the amp. Then she presses the remote in the WiiM and then connects with her Samsung phone and Tidal. She already does this in her home office set up...
Elsewhere, the WiiM Ultra will be just a bit perfect interface... except where I already run a PC directly into the DAC.
I don't have an issue with a PC in every room.... mostly I've migrated into MFF little boxes or laptops so they don't make too much of an impact. And the big TV displays are also the displays for those machines... except, did you know you can use Remote Desktop with an Android Tablet?
In a perfect world, their would be a WiiM Ultra Streamer with a plug in DAC option. But then the price would likely skyroket and cost as much as the Eversolo.
Oh.. @Extreme_Boky More boxes, more interconnects.... Hmm... so, my preamp to a BA3B to a pair of bridged monos... hmmm too many boxes?
Last edited:
Good to know that the WiiM Ultra is a great fit for purpose. A bit OT here but if you invest in a better DAC it may even exceed the SQ of your reference LP12 gear. Given the price of such analog gear, possibly something you may want to consider…🙂
one can dream
Every DAC from 90's and up (and yes my Audiomeca Enkiathus X circa 2000 was supposedly better than refernce LInn. Also every new turntable was much better , much much better or x times better than Linn and SS amps were sounding so much like tube amps that now they sound like Super XL tube amps which have never been developed eh
Every DAC from 90's and up (and yes my Audiomeca Enkiathus X circa 2000 was supposedly better than refernce LInn. Also every new turntable was much better , much much better or x times better than Linn and SS amps were sounding so much like tube amps that now they sound like Super XL tube amps which have never been developed eh
Last edited:
I got 4000+ LPs. Just installed a Linn Keel and Ekos-2 tonearm in a table with the Karousel and Lingo (perfectly working with motor)... And got a Pearl 2 and Pearl 3.
Digital issue was that I was not getting bit perfect. Unless I used a Windows machine or rebuilt one of the Raspberries. The WiiM solves that problem nicely by bypassing the USB-OTG limitations of for Android and Chromebooks.
Now then, currently my best DAC (AD/DAC) is the RME ADI2 RS Pro.. I also have a Burson Swing with the Burson V7 opamps... plus the Topping D90LE, Nitsch Pietus Maximus and various NuForce devices. Players are Chromebooks, PCs and Androids... using Tidal and my Foobar.
So, for playing music, seriously, where I sit down and listen, the LP12 is hands down the option.
For background music and music discovery ( As in Tidal playing on and on by itself ) and long drives, Tidal and the DACs are fine ( cars have Android Auto ) and we got large SD Cards.
So, the next thing I'm gonna buy is an ultrasonic record cleaning machine ( to replace the VPI 16.5 ) and likely an Ortofon Cadenza Black.
I made my decision a long time ago. I figure I've had my LP12 for 35 years and I'm about $12K into it by now ( add another $3K for cartridges ). That works out to $428 a year. With the exception of the Karousel, I've never paid MSRP. mostly bought things used. I've never had to throw anything away... heck, do you want to buy an almost perfect shape BLACK Ittok tonearm?
OK, the WiiM plays great for bit perfect ( which I hear ) so, life is good. I might upgrade the DAC... but it's a different world from the turntable. Things become obsolete and worthless in the digital realm. The one year old Topping D90LE I bought used for 400 bucks including shipping. I paid 850 for the Nitsch because it's a rather special DAC... I paid 1500 for the RME... used.. and that was because it's an AD/DAC and I needed to replace my aging M-Audio Firewire 810... So, I'm getting to the point where I've spent over my lifetime, including PC audio cards and other... about $7000 since '85 (let's throw in the surround decoders in there as well )... Of that, more than half of that has been obsoleted ( want a Sony EP9ES decoder? ).
So right now, a WiiM ultra driving one of my DACs sounds fine enough I am not going to spend 3000 bucks on a DAC that will be useless in five years... but I will spend that money on a moving coil cartridge.
Priorities.
Last edited:
There is nothing particularly wrong with obsolete if it was of sufficient quality when current.
I dont believe in great breakthroughs.
I bought Auralic Altair ( 2017) with dreaded ESS chip and it's been a pleasure playing the content of HD in the bedroom for weeks now . A pleasure spoiled only by the curiosity how much better the current model is at 20x what I've paid for the old device.
I dont believe in great breakthroughs.
I bought Auralic Altair ( 2017) with dreaded ESS chip and it's been a pleasure playing the content of HD in the bedroom for weeks now . A pleasure spoiled only by the curiosity how much better the current model is at 20x what I've paid for the old device.
If it's still works, then it's not obsolete.
But, as Jean-Paul noted, we're really discussing a streamer/DAC.
Good luck finding a machine with a working ISA bus, or even a plain PCI... forget Firewire... then you need the drivers. What? No drivers for Win 7? No drivers for Chromebook? Forget XP.
You say the binaries for Cubase SE no longer run on Windows 8? Or you will have to pay 400 bucks to get the "upgrade"?
My Sony EP9ES still works, if I use its's optical interface... but it lacks USB... it will do DD 5.1 but that's it. However, it's a reasonable job if I take the coax output from a CD player.... Hmmm? What's that? A what? CD player? I guess my MDP700 still plays CD and will output AC3.
The digital standards move so fast.... what HDMI are we at now? You want eARC?
Anyways.. something from 2017... is rather modern. My oldest unit, still working, rebuilt, is a 1973 Akai AS980 quad receiver. With wired remote and built in SQ/QS/CD4 decoders. OK, I lied, I also got a '73 Marantz 4415 with SQA1, CD4 demodulator and wired remote and a '73 Marantz 2325. All fully rebuilt... the only part we couldn't calibrate were the Dolby circuits for the 2325.
Those things still work.... but even the '77 Sansui G7500 was almost a throw away as we couldn't find the replacement high speed output transistors. It took us six months to find a used, working set...
Ask Nelson Pass about obsolence... let's talk about SIT and Sony VFET.
Anyways, I think I'll buy another WiiM Ultra.
But, as Jean-Paul noted, we're really discussing a streamer/DAC.
Good luck finding a machine with a working ISA bus, or even a plain PCI... forget Firewire... then you need the drivers. What? No drivers for Win 7? No drivers for Chromebook? Forget XP.
You say the binaries for Cubase SE no longer run on Windows 8? Or you will have to pay 400 bucks to get the "upgrade"?
My Sony EP9ES still works, if I use its's optical interface... but it lacks USB... it will do DD 5.1 but that's it. However, it's a reasonable job if I take the coax output from a CD player.... Hmmm? What's that? A what? CD player? I guess my MDP700 still plays CD and will output AC3.
The digital standards move so fast.... what HDMI are we at now? You want eARC?
Anyways.. something from 2017... is rather modern. My oldest unit, still working, rebuilt, is a 1973 Akai AS980 quad receiver. With wired remote and built in SQ/QS/CD4 decoders. OK, I lied, I also got a '73 Marantz 4415 with SQA1, CD4 demodulator and wired remote and a '73 Marantz 2325. All fully rebuilt... the only part we couldn't calibrate were the Dolby circuits for the 2325.
Those things still work.... but even the '77 Sansui G7500 was almost a throw away as we couldn't find the replacement high speed output transistors. It took us six months to find a used, working set...
Ask Nelson Pass about obsolence... let's talk about SIT and Sony VFET.
Anyways, I think I'll buy another WiiM Ultra.
Last edited:
AFAIK, none of these streamers support Dolby TrueHD decoding… only the lossy Dolby digital - so check the fine print when Dolby is promoted for HDMI/eARC. Hopefully in the near future🙂
It's movies.... who cares if it's lossy or not... it's all a made up soundtrack. All I care is to watch in "surround" the Superbowl and the FIFA World Cup with a semblance of surround. And of course LOTR.
Wife is the one that watches Netflix.
I've tried using eARC to take the surround tracks from my TV when its tuned to Netflix, etc.. to the surround decoder.
But eventually I decided that the plain old coax output of the TV carries the surround tracks. It works quite well actually.
Pretty much only use the eight year old surround decoder for audio... All video switching is now in the four year old TV. Including streaming from Netflix..
I got a 7.0 HT set up... so I don't need no more speakers.... When it comes to video, I gave up on them a long time ago. 7.1 decoding for Dolby and DTS is as far as I care. And my main L/R speakers are big enough that I don't need no stinking boom! boom! box. Although I've thought about bringing in the Entec woofers in there...
My LP.... is not lossy. I even got a tube phono preamp... with teflon caps. So, I can even go there.... Svetlana tubes.
I got the Parasound P7 in the HT (used of course) so I can play some music through the front speakers... so the 7.1 tracks are routed through the P7... and I can run an FM tuner and hopefully I'll hook up the WiiM Ultra through it. I can then either run its own DAC or one off the shelf...
Wife is the one that watches Netflix.
I've tried using eARC to take the surround tracks from my TV when its tuned to Netflix, etc.. to the surround decoder.
But eventually I decided that the plain old coax output of the TV carries the surround tracks. It works quite well actually.
Pretty much only use the eight year old surround decoder for audio... All video switching is now in the four year old TV. Including streaming from Netflix..
I got a 7.0 HT set up... so I don't need no more speakers.... When it comes to video, I gave up on them a long time ago. 7.1 decoding for Dolby and DTS is as far as I care. And my main L/R speakers are big enough that I don't need no stinking boom! boom! box. Although I've thought about bringing in the Entec woofers in there...
My LP.... is not lossy. I even got a tube phono preamp... with teflon caps. So, I can even go there.... Svetlana tubes.
I got the Parasound P7 in the HT (used of course) so I can play some music through the front speakers... so the 7.1 tracks are routed through the P7... and I can run an FM tuner and hopefully I'll hook up the WiiM Ultra through it. I can then either run its own DAC or one off the shelf...
It is a streamer dac 🙂 You still have to spend $700 to get it used.
Which?
My combo's run over 1000 bucks when you add the MSRP of the WiiM Ultra and DAC.
But even buying it used, like the 400 bucks on the D90LE, and the sale price of the WiiM. it still ran 700 bucks..
Which is what you wrote... with the others, well, the over cost did run over 1000.... but being separate and bit perfect makes it a nice combo as I only one need ONE FE streamer so I can spend the money where, IMHO, matters the most.
Hmm.. new term "Front End" streamer... ;-)
@acko... yes... more performance indeed... I think the Raspberries are the entry level in terms of price and DIY'ness....
My combo's run over 1000 bucks when you add the MSRP of the WiiM Ultra and DAC.
But even buying it used, like the 400 bucks on the D90LE, and the sale price of the WiiM. it still ran 700 bucks..
Which is what you wrote... with the others, well, the over cost did run over 1000.... but being separate and bit perfect makes it a nice combo as I only one need ONE FE streamer so I can spend the money where, IMHO, matters the most.
Hmm.. new term "Front End" streamer... ;-)
@acko... yes... more performance indeed... I think the Raspberries are the entry level in terms of price and DIY'ness....
Interesting discussion, I like what you coined about this ‘FE Streamer’ to differentiate the WiiM for your use case
Also in the video you posted early there is this DAC-Streamer vs Streamer-DAC that could confuse people…🤔
Also in the video you posted early there is this DAC-Streamer vs Streamer-DAC that could confuse people…🤔
$246.78 on sale until 3/26, I just bought another one...
On aliexpress.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=wii...gyNDAzajBqNKgCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
On aliexpress.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=wii...gyNDAzajBqNKgCALACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8