That’s what motivated me to write an article in Jan’s Linear Audio magazine, backed up by Bill Whitlock, called “One End Only”.
It describes how to transfer information between equipment in the purest possible form and without possible hysteresis distortion from an isolation transformer.
Hans
Well I knew someone who unfortunately suffered from schizophrenia. Not only did they have hallucinations, but they often believed they were real. At the same time, they often didn't believe reality even when it was obvious to everyone else. They had a difficult time parsing reality from fantasy and illusion.
I've experienced hallucinations brought on by grief, and recently too. I knew after a moment they weren't real, but the hallucinations didn't stop. It was most distressing.
I experienced synesthesia after taking acid. I knew it wasn't real, and it was an illuminating experience.
Our perceptions can be very flawed and our brains can really fool us.
No. Your statement was putting other people's statement in a frame that they didn't intend and imply.
It was misleading and dishonest. You know very well. Say as it is.
Jan
Yes, and "thinking..." is a hypothesis, a model, useful in some contexts but a long way from being a true theory of how things work. Again - we just don't know anywhere near enough, yet.
In my opinion you do not simply want enough to realize the following metaphor.
It is clear that it was referring to the fact that the so-called objectivists (> "measurements only") not accepting the points of view of the so-called subjectivists (> "sound perception"), only accepted what they can measure (> "oscilloscope").
That's the point of this thread, remember?
It wasn't hard to realize at all. IMO
Your statements will be dishonest, not mine.
Furthermore unpolite and without any respect for Netiquette.
May be you want to shut down this thread like you've done shut down so many in the past.
And you know how to do it very well.
But I will not give in to your usual provocations.
Do you honestly believe in this drama?
And it's too low to bring forward a badmouthing of a member in absentia.
George
Yes. I would not have posted it if I didn't believe it to be correct.
Also, if its low to quote a post archived in the forum, then perhaps all unflattering posts of any and all past members should be expunged from the record? Cancel the history of all of it?
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anyone care to summarize what we've learned here?
Isn't this just confusion between the difference of "knowing" and "believing"?
Isn't this just confusion between the difference of "knowing" and "believing"?
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‘so - what would you write on the paper to get the most optimal sounding system - perfect soundstage, perfect transparency, etc.’
I’d write ‘this speaker cost $40 000’. Works every time.
I’d write ‘this speaker cost $40 000’. Works every time.
I am still trying to work out who these zealots are. Not evidence of any of them on here, so who are you all talking about as if they are crawling out the woodwork like roaches?
I also have a confusion over the 'ignoring that the listeng test told them nothing' as I would counter that that to ask how a sighted test would tell any more, other than re-inforcing that we listen with our eyes if they are available to help out?
I took me a little while to respond, because I actually took the time to read and make an attempt to digest what you've posted along with the references. No longer. You've lost credibility with me not gained. Still, please continue your work. I just can't waste any more of my time reading your posts, and I have plenty.
My reasons for perhaps being harsh to judgment and moving along to others for information.
1) Who cares if it can't be done with an AP machine? When did I ever say that it could be done with only an AP machine or bring up a brand / type of tool?
2) I have no idea re: Bruno Putzey's motivations for his study/work. Names also do not impress me. I'll say this though. If amplifiers from a particular manufacturer went out into the wild with popping and crackling issues under normal operation, then the design and QA team for that manufacturer didn't do a very thorough job, particularly if the only time it became known to the manufacturer was through customer complaints.
Either way, the work stands alone. The motivations for his work are irrelevant. If the author thought it was relevant, than it's likely those reasons would have been mentioned in the study through a preamble or similar, but gosh wouldn't that have been embarrassing.
<sarc on>
Some designer - Sorry we released a lousy amplifier. Let me explain the known phenomena we missed in its design and QA. Eureka! We know why now!
Some marketing guy - You know we can spin this into a positive now, right!
Next thing you know we'll see advertising claims for amplifiers claiming "No audible effects from hysteresis distortion!!!!" <sarc off>
Back to being somewhat serious. The author explained that it (hysteresis distortion) can manifest itself in several ways audibly in particular applications. This is a known phenomena. Note... every single one of the things that the author mentions ... "It’s very real, very different from what you’d expect and not at all subtle. It takes the form of popping or crackling noises that go off at almost but not entirely random moments."... can be measured with every-day equipment.
So, how does this bolster your argument? You don't measure the hysteresis distortion of a coil to determine audibility of some new and scary thing we don't yet know about. You measure the amplifier... or just listen to it.
3) You've made the same poor argument for RF interference. Are you suggesting that you and your pals sit around aiming different forms of radiation at different levels in different places and in different ways to determine the audibility? Of course, I'm again kidding. That would be an AWFUL (IMO) way to determine the effects of EMI/RFI.
Have a wonderful day. Seriously. We can be cordial and disagree, I hope. My impressions are my own. If I've misinterpreted anything or missed key facts, I welcome being corrected. With that said, unless it is directly relevant to these two particular things, I will not be reading anything further. I've opened the door for continued conversation around these two things: EMI/RFI and hysteresis distortion in coils and how their effects to audibility can or cannot be measured with an AP or other known technology. I will not entertain anything similar to ... HEY LOOK OVER HERE NOW!
What makes you think you are the only reader of what I post here?
Maybe you should learn some more before you speak from such a lofty position?
Twenty plus years for me at Stanford University as an engineering manager in Radiation Oncology. A non-teaching research faculty appointment at UCLA involved in experimental cyclotron-based neutron therapy. They recruited me to Stanford because they wanted someone who could work on projects such as pion generator-based therapy. What about you? You think everyone should know everything that can happen in advance or they are incompetent? If so, you still have a lot to learn.
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Since you were replying to me, I assumed it was directed to me. Noted.
I have no lofty position.
Seems we've concluded our conversation.
Cheers
I have no lofty position.
Seems we've concluded our conversation.
Cheers
If you know anything about forums, typically 95% of readers are lurkers. They never post. Many of them here know what an AP is though. If you don't know its okay to ask.
Nothing to do with that part of my life. After college and before going back into real engineering I did live sound for seven years. Many major acts, many major venues. To do it I had to compete with some of the best of professionals in the business doing the same back then. When I started I didn't know how to listen any better than you do. I just figured if these other guys can learn how to do then so can I. So I started learning and managed to get pretty good at it, so said other people in a position to know.
That said, there is always more to learn.
Also, don't assume my life has been easy. It hasn't been. I was also and still am a single parent who raised three kids on my own. Two of them turned out to be severely disabled. One of them still lives with me and I am his primary caregiver. Its okay with me, its my lot in life to do what I have to do.
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