Why exactly drivers built for guitars are bad idea for home HiFi Speakers?

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#41
 
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#42
scottg

"As for the "tiny until loud" result - many Guitar driver's have very stiff initial mechanical compliance (from their suspensions) to try to keep the VC in the motor's gap in an effort to achieve some clarity higher in freq., but not all - others (after some "break-in) have softer suspensions (Spider and Surround)."

I like that. I think full range drivers can be similar.

I assume a driver with a higher qms could help explain ?

But you are right, If a PA driver's suspension, etc is strong enough to put up with 200-300 watts rms, at 10 watts, the signal has to overcome the more rugged suspension/spider/etc that is probably more resistant to motion.
 
#43
Kms and Rms are very important parameters in this equation. A relatively low Fs and Mms with a higher Qms will usually amount to better low level detail retrieval. The lack of resistance of the suspension to movement makes a significant difference here. Furthermore, a huge motor and high BL with a low Qes and Le amounts to a widebanded and lively sounding driver (cone mechanical properties allowing).
 
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#47
Thanks! Been trying to remember it since Friday!

A neighbor that use to be on the earlier FR forum brought one over in a short, but wide OB with an old EV tweeter horn? from the '50s/1st order XO IIRC coupled to a flea power SET amp. With us and it setting on the floor out in the middle of my ~16 x 24 ft, open back room it was right impressive and ditto in a critically damped Vb = Vas, Fb = Fs BR later on for his son's bedroom.

I wanted him to try one of my MLTLs, but his job forced a move and never heard from him again. 🙁
 
#52
 
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#55
Any word on HD or IMD?

I'm narrowing down the candidates for my next project. Realistically, a pair of sealed 12 inch woofers with an Xmax of 2mm will be more than adequate for bass duty, just based on recent experience with 10" woofers and the way we use them at home. The 10" woofers have a claimed Xmax of 9mm and Al voice coil former for high power handling, but we just never use them that way. I think the high power design compromises the mid-range too much.

Top contenders:

Eminence Beta 12A
-- 40g mms, small voice coil
Eminence Alpha 12
--sub-bass struggles compared to the rest, 33g mms
Eminence Basslite s2012
--not sure about the lightweight neo magnet, I'd rather have a bulky ferrite so the box doesn't move as much.
Faital Pro 12FE300
- slightly higher mms than the Beta 12A and Basslite, but the 2kHz area looks more well-controlled, and I'm not sure how bad the harmonics of 1kHz, 670Hz, 500Hz, etc, will be because of the elevated 2kHz in the other woofers.

Based on simulations, a 1W input produces about +/-1mm of cone movement <50Hz, and up to 98dB sensitivity (half-space?) around 100-200Hz, which tells me that even the 150W rating of the Basslite s2012 may be overkill. Then again, there are probably a few catches in the AES power ratings -- I just know for a fact that 150W would probably make a 50mm diameter x 12mm coil glow red hot, so it'll be the high impedance at various frequencies that reduces real power dissipation. So, if I want to EQ the Eminence Alpha to give it more sub-bass, it'll probably struggle and may ruin the mid-range.
 

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#56
Agree, the pioneers were very high SQ centric, so systems were designed for drivers with literally zero - fractional Xmax. Fast forward to the '50s and cinema sound/PA finally 'forced' boosting it to a 'whopping' 😱 ~1.5 - 3 mm.
 
#57
Two years ago when I started diy I picked up a pair of 12" whose code google identified as Roland Cube guitar/bass drivers. I simply plunked them flat (off-axis filtered >1khz) over a couple of stuffed steel cans of perfect size, run straight-through at barely audible level to bottom-support various bookshelf speakers. Besides uncovering a wealth of bottom information in every recording (for hirez bookshelves) they lent a subtle liquid glow, comfy luxuriance to the overall sound. They didn't have the clarity to blend with Lowther though.
 
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#58
The frequency response of the guitar “amp” (amplifier + loudspeaker driver/transducer + cabinet) is part of the music creation process.

They are not designed for audio reproduction (flat and smooth response)

On a slightly different but related note; I find it fascinating that digital processes have allowed emulations of past guitar “amps” using software.

Reference:

https://www.celestionplus.com/
 
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#59
I've been listening to guitar drivers pretty much exclusively for the last few months. I started with an Eminence 820H (8" hemp cone) in a two way sealed box. It has evolved into a full range driver with a vent where the tweeter used to be. Sounds really good. It has nicer highs and lows than I expected and the mids are very clean. I think the light weight cone helps a lot.

I am working on a larger pair with Eminence GA-SC64 (12" paper cone with paper voice coil former). So far, the 12" sounds pretty good on its own with clean mid bass and midrange. I am planning to integrate a super tweeter with it.

I like the idea that most guitar players talk about tone and not so much about numbers. And guitar players analyze their sound in great detail. The GA-SC64 was purchased because a high percentage of guitar players who have used it really like it. So far, I agree with them.
 
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