Cost plus repetitive overheating and/or sharply hitting them usually requires draining/re-magnetizing.
They don't need to go low in a musical instrument (MI) app.
Any driver with a very low Vas (compliance) doesn't unless it has a very powerful motor to drive it, which MI drivers typically don't have, the price one pays for a small box. Ditto the Celestion's small magnet = medium weak motor and the fact that like AlNiCo it takes less mass to have the same performance as a ceramic (mud) motor.
The second speakers I ever built had 10" Emminence guitar speakers - plus a Phillips AD 0160/T8 with a N.P. Al-El cap. Purchased from the McGee radio catalog.
I was 18 and wanted the 40 Oz magnets for sensitivity; took 'em to college where they served me well for 4 years. Classmate with the Bose 301s said "They'll make everything sound like a guitar" He was right - as I dropped the needle on some John Mclaughlin - I didnt care.
Left 'em with my last housemate, who seemed to like 'em, cause they'd play pretty loud w/o a gigantic amp. Probably didnt want to buy new speakers after I moved...
Everyone has their very first DIY speaker. Those were my second. They had wide clear plexi tubes for the ports. I had access to some nomogram, where you'd put the speaker in a 1 cu ft box and note the change in resonance. I cant remember if I actually did that though to design the BR enclosure - pretty sure I did something, so that must've been it.
I was 18 and wanted the 40 Oz magnets for sensitivity; took 'em to college where they served me well for 4 years. Classmate with the Bose 301s said "They'll make everything sound like a guitar" He was right - as I dropped the needle on some John Mclaughlin - I didnt care.
Left 'em with my last housemate, who seemed to like 'em, cause they'd play pretty loud w/o a gigantic amp. Probably didnt want to buy new speakers after I moved...
Everyone has their very first DIY speaker. Those were my second. They had wide clear plexi tubes for the ports. I had access to some nomogram, where you'd put the speaker in a 1 cu ft box and note the change in resonance. I cant remember if I actually did that though to design the BR enclosure - pretty sure I did something, so that must've been it.
The only general reason I can come to think of is that a guitar driver manufacturer will hook up a guitar to a driver and listen if it sounds "good" - they might even have an own "house sound" which they are famous for. A producer of a driver aimed for hifi will measure it to see if they managed to make it as linear as possible - i.e. no or as less own sound as possible. These two different goals might in general make guitar drivers be less frequency response linear. Otherwise it is the same good ol paper, plastic and metal that is used to make the same good ol' Kellog/Rice kind of speaker drivers.
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Do a high fidelity reccording in an acheoic chamber of all those colored guitar bass drivers. The perfect hifi speaker listened in the same room will be the one able to reproduce the tone of each bass driver. That's the theory and what people are looking for, but there is more a way to skin a cat.
Each driver should be used when it comes to hifi reproduction in its usable frequency windows related to the spl curve when loaded (whatever the load is a room, the cabinet and both finally), acceptable distorsion and max spl capability, filter that fit, etc.
It is physik and we know a guitar driver may be used for hifi with these limitations or forced if the listeners accept the trade offs. Gozilla blog is a good illustration of that. Choose your venon 🙂 which matters is the snake dances with the music !
Each driver should be used when it comes to hifi reproduction in its usable frequency windows related to the spl curve when loaded (whatever the load is a room, the cabinet and both finally), acceptable distorsion and max spl capability, filter that fit, etc.
It is physik and we know a guitar driver may be used for hifi with these limitations or forced if the listeners accept the trade offs. Gozilla blog is a good illustration of that. Choose your venon 🙂 which matters is the snake dances with the music !
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looks like there is a close standard here and idem like some close 8" : Emminence Alpha or Beta 8, etc.
There are some "guitar drivers" that has gotten praise as mid/midbass drivers with compression drivers/horns, TPL etc.
As with any type of loudspeaker drivers there are good and bad units produced.
As for the application of home audio, a generalized" home audio speaker uses drivers with lower sensitivity, and more xmax to try and extract the most from a small elegant "package".A Celestiona 12" mid/midbass "guitar speaker" with 95-102db sensitivity does not blend well into that. That does however not mean they are not good for the right use.
As with any other drivers, there are good and bad. a lot of "guitar drivers" are on purpose manufactured to have a "tone, being it large untreated breakups, very rough CSDs, and high amounts of thd coupled with low xmax.
A lot of them have a low price for a reason and that is the quality of the parts,engineering and manufacturing. A stamped steel basket is a lot cheaper to produce then a cast alu one for example, magnet size and materials etc.
Here for example a sales quote from Jensen guitar speakers for a driver:
Guitarist Description: Warm, straightforward tone with a pronounced low end. When presented with overdrive distortion, it presents some mean fuzz.
And in a speaker for reproduction that is not a desireable effect to achieve. But there are also well made examples. That will work for the right applications.
A "neo subwoofer" driver is made for another purpose.
Some of the vintage JBL range gets praise, look at lansing heritage forums for some info. But they are not economical in "as new" shape.
A well made modern example that has got some positive publicity here and other places, is the Beyma Liberty-8.
Price is not scary for a 12", cast frame, huge magnet, weight 10,5 kgs, 4" voice coil, 300W, Low fs :37 hz, Low qts/qes: 0,16-17, high efficiency: 3,8% 100db above 300 or so, and flat on axis from there until 4k, low xmax , underhung voice coil.
RE 5,7 mms 67gr BL 21,3.
The alu dustcap is the only objectionable quality but looking at measurements, distortion, impedance, FR etc it looks like a very well behaved and made driver. The Fr 'step around 3-400 hz might need a little attention.
For a high efficiency 3 way 18" woofer +12" mid+ 1 " CD and horn, crossing 1000-1300 hz it looks like a interesting candidate with a good chance to integrate well. Or for a 2-way with a high sensitivity CD/horn ontop going down to meet a sub at 100 hz +.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten/download/pdf/Datenblaetter/12E120-LIBERTY.pdf
https://usspeaker.com/beyma liberty-1.htm
If on an IEC measuremen baffle it is not so flat and even less when it will be on a baffle. A 18" is hardly usable above 200/300 hz and even there male voices will be a little too thick. According the baffle width after baffle step correction you risk too be nearer from 90 dB than 95 dB flat... However I'd like to hear it with some DSP.
The Beta 8a eminence is one of those drivers I have fallen in love with many years ago. As with any long term love affairs, you tolerate more quirks and make compromises because the core of what's there is very compatible with most of your standards. You just keep coming back to it due to familiarity and the heart if it.
Some drivers just become classics. The B&C 8PE21 mid is another one like that as is the 12MH32 midbass. This 12" is so clean down low and works very well with larger CDs and lower xover points. The cone on this one is fairly light but stiffer than most high efficiency pro 12s for tighter bass and great dynamics. The 12PE32 is good too but the lighter cone doesn't hold up as well for bass or higher output FLHs.
As a whole the drivers with lower Qts, Mms, Fs, Rms and higher Qms, BL with a lower and linear Le tend to be better for low level detail retrieval. That recipe will guarantee you a high efficiency driver with a very strong motor and allow for a critically dampened reflex enclosure too, pushing the tuning frequency and phase shifts low enough out of audible range.
Some drivers just become classics. The B&C 8PE21 mid is another one like that as is the 12MH32 midbass. This 12" is so clean down low and works very well with larger CDs and lower xover points. The cone on this one is fairly light but stiffer than most high efficiency pro 12s for tighter bass and great dynamics. The 12PE32 is good too but the lighter cone doesn't hold up as well for bass or higher output FLHs.
As a whole the drivers with lower Qts, Mms, Fs, Rms and higher Qms, BL with a lower and linear Le tend to be better for low level detail retrieval. That recipe will guarantee you a high efficiency driver with a very strong motor and allow for a critically dampened reflex enclosure too, pushing the tuning frequency and phase shifts low enough out of audible range.
Any known pro 6 1/2 good till 2k5 to 3k hz ?
(Story not to fall in the 4" to 5" which are more usual due to physik laws.)
Pro 8" are difficult off axis beyond 1k5 hz... If a 8" you need a horn for the tweeter or a WG then the cut off is in the difficult 1k to 2k hz window...
(Story not to fall in the 4" to 5" which are more usual due to physik laws.)
Pro 8" are difficult off axis beyond 1k5 hz... If a 8" you need a horn for the tweeter or a WG then the cut off is in the difficult 1k to 2k hz window...
@diyiggy - The one 6 inch i really like alot is the PRV 6mr500-ndy. Its sort of a freak of nature playing with climbing response to past 10k, but I use it to about 5k. Its a solid 95 dB once past 400 Hz and gels very well with planars. I would use it with a rough 350 - 400 Hz HP, but it will go lower with a WG or using in a lower power situation. It has a 2 inch VC and thats massive for a 6 inch driver.
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Thanks... that is a beast...looks like some former Beyma's.
Ouch not easy that break-up for a passive filter...but good power handling.
Ouch not easy that break-up for a passive filter...but good power handling.
@diyiggy - The breakup looks much worse than it actually sounds. This driver really retrieves low level detail.
0.5mH and Zobel to taste makes this mid a great wideband driver. Its seriously a very nice driver to listen to fullrange after top end shelf EQ. Surprisingly non fatiguing and open, plus it has good Xmax to use it lower down in higher power 3 ways. 300 hz 2nd order is no problem for this thing. Can't say that for many other drivers which claim to be this wideband yet easy to listen to.
0.5mH and Zobel to taste makes this mid a great wideband driver. Its seriously a very nice driver to listen to fullrange after top end shelf EQ. Surprisingly non fatiguing and open, plus it has good Xmax to use it lower down in higher power 3 ways. 300 hz 2nd order is no problem for this thing. Can't say that for many other drivers which claim to be this wideband yet easy to listen to.
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A fellow engineer was working on a speaker for Peavey, it was like a different world from hi-fi. They wanted the sound "thinner" and a whole lot of other adjectives. I was helping him out with the voice coil, which ended up with a lot of skinny wire to somehow get a light moving mass. Rising frequency response which we got to drop like a rock above 5k? 8k? It was a long time ago. Guitar speakers are for MAKING sound, not REPRODUCING sound.
A blast from the past! My first "Hifi" speakers used the Rola 5FX and 6WR drivers in a design published in Electronics Australia magazine in the 1960s. I recall seeing the 12U being used in a large valve console radio in the 1970s, but I might be wrong.
What about it?
The Delta Pro is a PA driver, not a guitar amp speaker ie designed to reproduce sound and not to produce a sound of it's own.
The Delta Pro is a PA driver, not a guitar amp speaker ie designed to reproduce sound and not to produce a sound of it's own.
That's a good driver with a light weight, well designed cone, but the VC is it's Achilles heel. I've seen a few failures with this driver due to the way the VC is terminated at the inner winding (the flat copper ribbon runnimg inside the VC former gap is only terminated by a strip of self adhesive kapton tape). Otherwise it has a nice controlled smooth rising response and can cross as high as you need after some shelf eq, given the off axis performance isn't as critical to you. There is a small amount of lower mid wiggle, likely due to a small duscap resonance, but its hard to perceive by most people. Otherwise its my goto driver for a light duty 2 way with a CD/WG crossed around 1.5k
Remind me a conversation about the Audax PR17M0 and PR17Z0. Two midrange too. @youknowyou uses in domestic level the PR17PM0 above the breaak ups in the crossover, and even first slope in the XO, and says it is harmless in his room.
@diyiggy - well I've said before with the PR170MO, it has little VC overhang, maybe 1mm and thats only if its assembled without VC offset - usually have a VC winding bias on this driver, further reducing xmax. I haven't used this driver with any success on a 1st order slope under maybe 500 hz, but you could get away with a 350 hz 2nd order using it under 100 dB. It really needs 400 hz 2nd order to get any decent headroom out of it.
The breakup over 2.5k isn't going to limit a higher xover, unless beaming is a problem for you (which it will be). Some people like the way this driver sounds playing higher up. Its just not my cup of tea, as I like something that sounds more precise and less euphonic.
The breakup over 2.5k isn't going to limit a higher xover, unless beaming is a problem for you (which it will be). Some people like the way this driver sounds playing higher up. Its just not my cup of tea, as I like something that sounds more precise and less euphonic.
Alnico - aluminum Nickle COBALT: Aluminum isn't expensive, Nickle is moderately expensive, and Cobalt is very expensive. ..and the processing (to Alnico) can also be quite expensive. Large drivers for bass reproduction require much larger magnets = much more expensive. Small "guitar" driver's are NOT bass drivers and don't require larger magnets = lower cost (though still multiples more than a typical "mud"/ceramic magnet of similar size).
Guitar drivers are designed to play LOUD within a limited bandwidth that's higher in freq.. the material of the motor's magnet is mostly irrelevant, instead it's down to how much excursion vs. force in the motor's gap (and for Guitar drivers it's a lot of force and very little excursion before significant distortion).
As for the "tiny until loud" result - many Guitar driver's have very stiff initial mechanical compliance (from their suspensions) to try to keep the VC in the motor's gap in an effort to achieve some clarity higher in freq., but not all - others (after some "break-in) have softer suspensions (Spider and Surround).
There are some very nice (including objective performance) Guitar speakers out there within a MORE limited bandwidth than their typical "fullrange" use. For those sorts of drivers you are often "looking" for somewhere between 200Hz-1kHz (in a typical 12" Guitar driver).