It is not on HAIRe
It is a American brochure. I got it when van Meedenvoort now a Dutch amplifierdesigner was still importing Threshold for the Netherlands. At that time I was a student and had some derivates from the slidingbias 800A the Denon POA-8000 mono-amps.
It's at the sixteen'th paragraph on page three starting numbering at the front page.
Yes and I do acknowledge it's a reflection of that era and naturally heavy on the saleseffect though only the technally minded audiophiles would bother to really read and grasp it. A copywriter would not "spill" so much information on a amp.
Just to put some absolute numbers to the discussion.
In case it hasn't been done yet.
Gasoline contains 34.8 MJ per litre
That's 135.4 MJ per US gallon.
So if you waste a gallon of gas by driving 15 miles in your
SUV (I guess in this discussion "waste" means taking a trip
which was not necessary - say out for drinks on a Saturday
night) then you've used the same amount of energy my pair
of Aleph 2's will use in 62 hours.
There are millions of oversized wasteful SUVs in the world.
Maybe there are a couple thousand class A amps heating the
joint.
The whole thread, when taken in this context is a bit on the
ridiculous side. If you want to make a difference in the world,
get people to stop driving their bloody gynormous SUVs.
Also we need to take into account the fact that for
some, operation of a class A amp is not much waste anyhow,
since they were going to heat their living space whether
by amp or by some other means.
Oh, and the answer to the original question is:
"it sounds better".
In case it hasn't been done yet.
Gasoline contains 34.8 MJ per litre
That's 135.4 MJ per US gallon.
So if you waste a gallon of gas by driving 15 miles in your
SUV (I guess in this discussion "waste" means taking a trip
which was not necessary - say out for drinks on a Saturday
night) then you've used the same amount of energy my pair
of Aleph 2's will use in 62 hours.
There are millions of oversized wasteful SUVs in the world.
Maybe there are a couple thousand class A amps heating the
joint.
The whole thread, when taken in this context is a bit on the
ridiculous side. If you want to make a difference in the world,
get people to stop driving their bloody gynormous SUVs.
Also we need to take into account the fact that for
some, operation of a class A amp is not much waste anyhow,
since they were going to heat their living space whether
by amp or by some other means.
Oh, and the answer to the original question is:
"it sounds better".
Ohnoes, not again. Big Oil?
I work for the Petroleum Refining Industry. I have an SUV.
I like my SUV. I have no problem "wasting" my money driving my SUV, and would have no problem "wasting" my money owning Class A amplification.
Do I feel bad about it, hell no. It takes money to enjoy special "wasteful" things. A bit of Disposable Income is nothing to be ashamed of.
Otherwise I would be listening to a 9 volt AM radio in my Nova, complaining about global warming and wondering if I will have enough money at the end of the month to buy Brittany Spears upcoming CD.
I work for the Petroleum Refining Industry. I have an SUV.
I like my SUV. I have no problem "wasting" my money driving my SUV, and would have no problem "wasting" my money owning Class A amplification.
Do I feel bad about it, hell no. It takes money to enjoy special "wasteful" things. A bit of Disposable Income is nothing to be ashamed of.
Otherwise I would be listening to a 9 volt AM radio in my Nova, complaining about global warming and wondering if I will have enough money at the end of the month to buy Brittany Spears upcoming CD.
I think you missed the point. THe point was, the ratio of
energy usage for "wasted" class A amps versus other "wastes"
of energy.
I didn't attach a value to the comparison. All I did was point
out the relative energy used in a manner that many people can
understand.
The other argument is not simply a money issue and I have
not the time nor patience for it.
energy usage for "wasted" class A amps versus other "wastes"
of energy.
I didn't attach a value to the comparison. All I did was point
out the relative energy used in a manner that many people can
understand.
The other argument is not simply a money issue and I have
not the time nor patience for it.
john65b said:
Do I understand you to be saying that expense justifies waste?
Just because fuel exists does that mean we should use it? Do we simply line up and take our share apportioned by the means of money, just because it's there and use it however we want?
I remember when I was 11 (circa 1975) hearing at school (by our teacher, no less) there was only enough gas in the world for six more years. I remember thinking, god that sucks, I will only be able to drive a car for one year.
Why did they induce all that fear and propaganda in these young impressionable minds?
Truth is, boys a squirrels, the sky is not falling. While there is a finite amount of petroleum fuel available on this planet, we will most likely have technology head us in a completely different direction before we ever run out.
Being in "The Oil Business", the technology that is most likely to eventually replace Petroleum Fuel is Bio-Fuels. Yup, making Bio-Diesel from common Biological waste material. Of course that will expose another select few and another "Movement" who deem it still wastefull.
I personally don't know what the difference is between Bio Waste and Crude Oil. Neither compete for any other useful resource, correct? Face it, Crude Oil would have ZERO Residual Value (like Bio Waste) if it weren't for its eventual value refining into fuel.
I have been driving a petroleum fueled automobile for 26 years past that "Six Years" now, and I wonder if that teacher ever thought he was really pulling the wool over my eyes.
Why did they induce all that fear and propaganda in these young impressionable minds?
Truth is, boys a squirrels, the sky is not falling. While there is a finite amount of petroleum fuel available on this planet, we will most likely have technology head us in a completely different direction before we ever run out.
Being in "The Oil Business", the technology that is most likely to eventually replace Petroleum Fuel is Bio-Fuels. Yup, making Bio-Diesel from common Biological waste material. Of course that will expose another select few and another "Movement" who deem it still wastefull.
I personally don't know what the difference is between Bio Waste and Crude Oil. Neither compete for any other useful resource, correct? Face it, Crude Oil would have ZERO Residual Value (like Bio Waste) if it weren't for its eventual value refining into fuel.
I have been driving a petroleum fueled automobile for 26 years past that "Six Years" now, and I wonder if that teacher ever thought he was really pulling the wool over my eyes.
Ah, what would you rather do with it?
Just because air exist does that mean we should breathe it?
I dare say I refuse to feel badly about driving my SUV, listening to Class A amplification, or....breathing.
Well, the way I see it, the earth is capable of sustaining the oxygen use caused by us all breathing.john65b said:
Is it the best way to look at petroleum as simply a commodity, when it's use presents a clear and present (and still, maybe, fixable) danger to us all.john65b said:
I'm surprised "that" teacher was stupid enough to believe his/her pupils could be conned by a statement like that.
To be exact: The discussion was if there's still a need to "waste" so much power like a Passlab XA-200 that consumes 650 Watts all the time for a maximum of 200 Watts at all impedences.
Considering the improvements in switching technology (Jeff Rowland designs like the 201 & 501) that are considered to be highend products that consume only a fraction of the Pass designs (also when manufacturing cause there's no need for big a chassis extruding cooling fins, PSU ....), the plateau biasing solutions from Krell and Levinson, Class AB amplifiers in general wher Class A is applied where it's most needed at the cutoff region of a transistors.
I recently acquired 4 ML-2's that have the most lousy value for Watts /dollar (1 Watt ML-2 costs 176 USD) according to J. Gorden Holt of Stereophile them when he reviewed the Threshold SA/1 160 Watts/8Ohm mono-amplifiers (Class A according to Nelson Pass) and concluded that the sounded superior to everything I've had had before for 20 years in my setup.
A ML-2 burns 400 Watts for 25 of Class A power @ 8 Ohms.
So in my opinion it probably is worth the while but that conclusion is based on my evalution and setup.
Considering the improvements in switching technology (Jeff Rowland designs like the 201 & 501) that are considered to be highend products that consume only a fraction of the Pass designs (also when manufacturing cause there's no need for big a chassis extruding cooling fins, PSU ....), the plateau biasing solutions from Krell and Levinson, Class AB amplifiers in general wher Class A is applied where it's most needed at the cutoff region of a transistors.
I recently acquired 4 ML-2's that have the most lousy value for Watts /dollar (1 Watt ML-2 costs 176 USD) according to J. Gorden Holt of Stereophile them when he reviewed the Threshold SA/1 160 Watts/8Ohm mono-amplifiers (Class A according to Nelson Pass) and concluded that the sounded superior to everything I've had had before for 20 years in my setup.
A ML-2 burns 400 Watts for 25 of Class A power @ 8 Ohms.
So in my opinion it probably is worth the while but that conclusion is based on my evalution and setup.
It will be a very boring hobby if everyone is building ClassD, ClassT amp. We all like choices and Class A make the option a bit more 'exciting'. Must admit that I am not a Class A amp owner and I do concern about the stage of our environment. However I am not losing any sleep because someone just have another round of Class A amp group buy. Let face it, how many Class A are there in this world? More than big screen TV? More than multi core PC with dual video card? Well, the daily green house gas generated by the US arm force in Iraq will be more than those by Class A amp in a year. So why worry about a small consumer when the big one is having the time of their life?
No it´s just a small fraction of all the energy used.
Maybee we should stop shaving..(electrical shaver..)😉
Maybee we should stop shaving..(electrical shaver..)😉
" Oh ! God, please another Katrina ..."
I bet Teodorom was referring to the levees failing and the floods ... the river/canal water continuing to push in after the storm surge.
Not sure if the analogy extends to the lost barge that randomly hit one of the weakest spots in a floodwall, propped open a door that led to the Lower 9th Ward filling like a bathtub.
patch
I bet Teodorom was referring to the levees failing and the floods ... the river/canal water continuing to push in after the storm surge.
Not sure if the analogy extends to the lost barge that randomly hit one of the weakest spots in a floodwall, propped open a door that led to the Lower 9th Ward filling like a bathtub.
patch
I'm really sorry for the poor people that died or have lost everithing, so, when asking for another Katrina, I was a little bit joking.
But not so much ...
I realized that the Bush administration refused to change its attitude (on the Kyoto protocol, e.g) even after Gore earned the Nobel prize.
Unfortunately hurricanes hit not in a "democratic" way ...
But not so much ...
I realized that the Bush administration refused to change its attitude (on the Kyoto protocol, e.g) even after Gore earned the Nobel prize.
Unfortunately hurricanes hit not in a "democratic" way ...
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