I call my Class-A amps "my winter amplifiers" - they help to heat up the room, like any other device. Thats nothing more than good. And ecologically as correct or not as any other electric heater.
In summer I listen on cool days only - cause on hot days I am in the garden or at the lake (for the other occasions I have my Chipamps...)
🙂
(So many devices in all homes run permantenly "on standby" which uses a lot more energy than the ClassA amps working hours... 🙁 )
In summer I listen on cool days only - cause on hot days I am in the garden or at the lake (for the other occasions I have my Chipamps...)
🙂
(So many devices in all homes run permantenly "on standby" which uses a lot more energy than the ClassA amps working hours... 🙁 )
Seems the above 'discussion' can be summarised thus:
Q: Why Class-A? It's an old concept and not very eco friendly!
A: Because it sounds better.
😀
Anyway, the only thing I can contribute to this thread is from a very newcomer perspective. I've dabbled with Tripath (though not UCD), Gainclones, other chipamp designs, which all have their strong points, but my limited experience with Class A left me liking the sound more. Having close to zero technical knowldege, I cannot explain why. But I'm currently building Mini-Alephs.
Q: Why Class-A? It's an old concept and not very eco friendly!
A: Because it sounds better.
😀
Anyway, the only thing I can contribute to this thread is from a very newcomer perspective. I've dabbled with Tripath (though not UCD), Gainclones, other chipamp designs, which all have their strong points, but my limited experience with Class A left me liking the sound more. Having close to zero technical knowldege, I cannot explain why. But I'm currently building Mini-Alephs.
A couple of weeks ago, I had a table dinner with designers of Hertz loudspeaker (subsidiary of Audison, Italy) when they visit Bandung. (Eating satay and lontong, Jacco 😀)
I don't know whether what they said is right or wrong, but if it is right, then there should be something (other than classA amps) that should be more of a concern. Loudspeakers.
If I'm not hearing wrong, 90% (or is it 95%?) energy that comes to a loudspeaker is actually turned into heat, and only 10% (or 5%?) that is becoming sound energy. The usage of loudspeakers should banned first before classA amps 😀
I don't know whether what they said is right or wrong, but if it is right, then there should be something (other than classA amps) that should be more of a concern. Loudspeakers.
If I'm not hearing wrong, 90% (or is it 95%?) energy that comes to a loudspeaker is actually turned into heat, and only 10% (or 5%?) that is becoming sound energy. The usage of loudspeakers should banned first before classA amps 😀
Time to toss in my 2 cents ...
Ecological responsibility is increasingly urgent, but one must pay attention to the mathematics of scale. The aggregate energy consumption of my amplifiers is dwarfed by the energy consumed by my lights and HVAC system. Sure, I've endeavored to minimize consumption with CFL bulbs (more on this, see footnote), tankless water heater, and high-SEER air conditioner. I can prioritize and address the high consumers in my energy budget according to magnitude, and my amplifier's contribution to my consumption rate is very low on the list (especially if I include my car).
I also exchanged my AMD Opteron computer for a Intel Core Duo, which slashed power consumption by more than 50%. This change saves about 1kwh per day (100W for 10 hours vs. 200W for 10 hours), which easily compensates for running my amplifiers a few hours each night. I also got an Antec Earthwatts power supply, which also boosts efficiency and power factor.
That being said, I also prioritize my consumption based on personal value of enjoyment. I like my amplifiers, I like how they sound, and I like my music. I'm lucky in this regard: my vices for class-A amplifiers result in energy consumption less than my neighbor's porch light, which stays on all the time.
Now, some efficiencies can be addressed. A choke-regulated power supply (LC filter) will dramatically smooth the peak currents through the transformer and filter capacitors, and increase power factor. You can also have a switchable bias current (for example, 0.5A and 2.0A), depending on how critically you are listening. Casual listening can suffice with 0.5A bias current. Better power factor increases the efficiency of the entire power grid. Sure, a couple hundred watts is really small in this regard, but it gains a few percent of efficiency overall. The switchable bias current would divide power consumption by a factor of 4 during non-critical listening sessions.
Overall, I can clean up my consumption lifestyle considerably before my sins of an energy-consuming class-A amplifier becomes hypocritical. I can only hope the efficiencies of lighting, HVAC, automobiles, and computers get so good, that the worst thing I need to worry about is my amplifier.
PS: Note about CFL bulbs. You may want to carefully consider buying and using these bulbs, because of environmental problems.
http://www.newstarget.com/021916.html
PSS: According to Berkeley EETD, computers accounted for 2% of the total energy consumption in the USA at 74 TWh in 1999. The US Energy Department accounted for 3% in 2000. This number is undoubtedly larger in 2007, which places computers as being major energy consumers in the league with HVAC and lighting.
Ecological responsibility is increasingly urgent, but one must pay attention to the mathematics of scale. The aggregate energy consumption of my amplifiers is dwarfed by the energy consumed by my lights and HVAC system. Sure, I've endeavored to minimize consumption with CFL bulbs (more on this, see footnote), tankless water heater, and high-SEER air conditioner. I can prioritize and address the high consumers in my energy budget according to magnitude, and my amplifier's contribution to my consumption rate is very low on the list (especially if I include my car).
I also exchanged my AMD Opteron computer for a Intel Core Duo, which slashed power consumption by more than 50%. This change saves about 1kwh per day (100W for 10 hours vs. 200W for 10 hours), which easily compensates for running my amplifiers a few hours each night. I also got an Antec Earthwatts power supply, which also boosts efficiency and power factor.
That being said, I also prioritize my consumption based on personal value of enjoyment. I like my amplifiers, I like how they sound, and I like my music. I'm lucky in this regard: my vices for class-A amplifiers result in energy consumption less than my neighbor's porch light, which stays on all the time.
Now, some efficiencies can be addressed. A choke-regulated power supply (LC filter) will dramatically smooth the peak currents through the transformer and filter capacitors, and increase power factor. You can also have a switchable bias current (for example, 0.5A and 2.0A), depending on how critically you are listening. Casual listening can suffice with 0.5A bias current. Better power factor increases the efficiency of the entire power grid. Sure, a couple hundred watts is really small in this regard, but it gains a few percent of efficiency overall. The switchable bias current would divide power consumption by a factor of 4 during non-critical listening sessions.
Overall, I can clean up my consumption lifestyle considerably before my sins of an energy-consuming class-A amplifier becomes hypocritical. I can only hope the efficiencies of lighting, HVAC, automobiles, and computers get so good, that the worst thing I need to worry about is my amplifier.
PS: Note about CFL bulbs. You may want to carefully consider buying and using these bulbs, because of environmental problems.
http://www.newstarget.com/021916.html
PSS: According to Berkeley EETD, computers accounted for 2% of the total energy consumption in the USA at 74 TWh in 1999. The US Energy Department accounted for 3% in 2000. This number is undoubtedly larger in 2007, which places computers as being major energy consumers in the league with HVAC and lighting.
Kashmire said:
Then you're gonna love this :
The global containership capacity in 2006 was 10.6 million TEU.(equivalent of a twenty foot container)
A 5000 TEU containership has about 70.000KW installed diesel engine power.
Suppose an average fuel consumption figure of 125 gr/KW/hr, 50% energy efficiency, and 280 days at sea.
The 50% heat that this fleet puts out in the air on a yearly basis is the equivalent of 1.25 Billion Aleph-5 amp owners who use their 400 watt heaters for 4 hours on a daily basis.
In reality, the average container vessel capacity is much less than half of 5000 TEU, requiring more horsepower per TEU, the average fuel efficiency is lower too.
More likely that every home in the world could listen through an Aleph-5 amp four hours a day if we sunk every containership.
Nelson should love that.
(the latest gasturbine engine developments lead to higher than 60% fuel efficiency, ecologist food)
Over the last couple of years we(me) have reduced our electricity consumption by 6000KWh per year, despite my awkward hobby.
... or if we dump every class-A on the planet we would have the containerships for free...
Perspective if everything!
Jan Didden
Perspective if everything!
Jan Didden
It looks like everyone agrees why we would use Class A. The
issue is to waste less power. There are some good avenues
for this that don't require any re-design of products.
1) Use efficient loudspeaker drivers. They often sound better
anyway, and the 87 dB/watt speaker that requires 200 watts
Class A dissipation puts out the same amount of sound as the
97 dB/watt at 20 watt dissipation.
2) Turn the amps off when you aren't using them. I know, this
is heresy to a portion of the audiophiles, but if you only listen
an hour a day, you are wasting 96% of the energy.
I personally warm the amps up for an hour before critical
listening, and find that quite adequate, and unless there is a
specific test being conducted, I shut them off when I'm done.
3) Turn the bias down or use a chip amp or Class D amp for
noncritical listening. I use Class AB for my television.
4) As mentioned before, use Class A amps in the winter, and
if you use them in the summer, try to not use air conditioning
at the same time, which would constitute a double sin.
😎
issue is to waste less power. There are some good avenues
for this that don't require any re-design of products.
1) Use efficient loudspeaker drivers. They often sound better
anyway, and the 87 dB/watt speaker that requires 200 watts
Class A dissipation puts out the same amount of sound as the
97 dB/watt at 20 watt dissipation.
2) Turn the amps off when you aren't using them. I know, this
is heresy to a portion of the audiophiles, but if you only listen
an hour a day, you are wasting 96% of the energy.
I personally warm the amps up for an hour before critical
listening, and find that quite adequate, and unless there is a
specific test being conducted, I shut them off when I'm done.
3) Turn the bias down or use a chip amp or Class D amp for
noncritical listening. I use Class AB for my television.
4) As mentioned before, use Class A amps in the winter, and
if you use them in the summer, try to not use air conditioning
at the same time, which would constitute a double sin.
😎
Class A because that's still the best available
Although some people found my initial posting on this subject offensive (I grant it was a bit provocative but never ment to stirr up a discussion just for the sake of argumenting) and questioned my motives I learned that to attain the best sound possible from an amplifier is a full biased device. I was not very impressed with lectures about other gear that would waste a lot of energy because with that argument there's never a incentive to design any efficient running gear because you can always point out a other offender.
Still it remains a fact that other high regarded designers of Highend audio products with the same goal in mind as Nelson Pass, that is to design amplifiing devices that keep the lowlevel inputsignal as much intact as possible, and a mean that in every parameter, before passing it with a greater amplitude to the ouputconnectors, do come up with different solutions.
My dentist is also a professional loudspeaker designer : URL http://www.mc-systems.com/ He mentioned to me that he heard PassLabs the other day and was very impressed with the performance of it. Do not know what Class it was.
Greetings and thanks
Although some people found my initial posting on this subject offensive (I grant it was a bit provocative but never ment to stirr up a discussion just for the sake of argumenting) and questioned my motives I learned that to attain the best sound possible from an amplifier is a full biased device. I was not very impressed with lectures about other gear that would waste a lot of energy because with that argument there's never a incentive to design any efficient running gear because you can always point out a other offender.
Still it remains a fact that other high regarded designers of Highend audio products with the same goal in mind as Nelson Pass, that is to design amplifiing devices that keep the lowlevel inputsignal as much intact as possible, and a mean that in every parameter, before passing it with a greater amplitude to the ouputconnectors, do come up with different solutions.
My dentist is also a professional loudspeaker designer : URL http://www.mc-systems.com/ He mentioned to me that he heard PassLabs the other day and was very impressed with the performance of it. Do not know what Class it was.
Greetings and thanks
Re: Class A because that's still the best available
no harm feelings............ 😉
just go and spend few hundreds on new software for your Aclass or no Aclass based system and enjoy..........
who cares about classes ...........
ya remember one preamp which have "volume" knob labeled as "listening pleasure" ............. or something like that;
that's certainly adequate attitude ...........
BrianEno said:
no harm feelings............ 😉
just go and spend few hundreds on new software for your Aclass or no Aclass based system and enjoy..........
who cares about classes ...........
ya remember one preamp which have "volume" knob labeled as "listening pleasure" ............. or something like that;
that's certainly adequate attitude ...........
Come on, you cant be such an A##😀 Class A rules, sounds mucho better and is generally the best listening experience you can get😀 Ya mean to make fun of us?? I am sure you do....He-he I didnt bother reading through the thread since it would obviously be a dedicated waste of time😀 Since I hate to waste time...... There you go
Eno
That's only partially true. On the first two records of Roxy Music in the beginning of the seventies Brian Eno participated as a full bandmember. He got a quarrel with the other Bryan over the direction of the band musically (that's how you spell his Christian name) and left the band.
Just something trivial hope that littel piece of information will not stirr up a other discussion😉
That's only partially true. On the first two records of Roxy Music in the beginning of the seventies Brian Eno participated as a full bandmember. He got a quarrel with the other Bryan over the direction of the band musically (that's how you spell his Christian name) and left the band.
Just something trivial hope that littel piece of information will not stirr up a other discussion😉
Re: Re: Class A because that's still the best available
Hmm, you mean pleasure control right? 😉
http://www.dartzeel.com/
Magura 🙂
Zen Mod said:
Hmm, you mean pleasure control right? 😉
http://www.dartzeel.com/
Magura 🙂
Re: Re: Re: Class A because that's still the best available
your preamp certainly need large font for that knob
Magura said:
your preamp certainly need large font for that knob
Re: Re: Re: Re: Class A because that's still the best available
I have taken the consequence of this issue, and emplyed NKT (no knob technology)
Magura 🙂
Zen Mod said:
your preamp certainly need large font for that knob
I have taken the consequence of this issue, and emplyed NKT (no knob technology)
Magura 🙂
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Class A because that's still the best available
ha ..........
so- your preamp is wasting 5W/ch and your NKT circ is wasting 50W.......luckily- just in moments when you operate it 😉
edit:
look - we are on topic here!!
Magura said:
I have taken the consequence of this issue, and emplyed NKT (no knob technology)
Magura 🙂
ha ..........
so- your preamp is wasting 5W/ch and your NKT circ is wasting 50W.......luckily- just in moments when you operate it 😉
edit:
look - we are on topic here!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Class A because that's still the best available
Naah, I guess the pre's are wasting somewhat more, and there are 4 of them, though switching power between them as the need for the different inputs arise
....but no input selector switch in the signal path 😎
And as for the NKT....I don't think 50W is adequate.....the stepper alone eats like 20W or so
as it's got a big rotary switch to turn....remember ?
Magura 🙂
Edit: NKT, now also in red 😉
http://www.briangt.com/gallery/magura-40stepattenuator
Zen Mod said:
Naah, I guess the pre's are wasting somewhat more, and there are 4 of them, though switching power between them as the need for the different inputs arise
....but no input selector switch in the signal path 😎 And as for the NKT....I don't think 50W is adequate.....the stepper alone eats like 20W or so
as it's got a big rotary switch to turn....remember ? Magura 🙂
Edit: NKT, now also in red 😉
http://www.briangt.com/gallery/magura-40stepattenuator
- Status
- Not open for further replies.