till said:
Good god. I'm not even going to respond to your views on the war/U.S any more, but check your German history. Your country has been invading countries since about 650 when it contributed to the fall of Rome, right up until - you guessed it the U.S.A.
As far as treasures, hell, during WWII the German Army looted after every victory, all the way across Europe. Remember who organized a huge undertaking to systematically find and return all these stolen precious items ( Including the Austrian Crown Jewels) That is right Till... The United States of America..... after we saved your ***** from a ruthless dictator, dont forget.
SY said:
Can't speak for roibm, but I tend to take a pragmatic view of these things. The negative effects of most autocracies tend to be contained within their own borders which is not the case with the Israel/Palestine conflict. Of course autocracies are a bad thing and all that but so long as the Western democracies choose to do business with autocratic regimes and remain more than a little complicit in the survival of these regimes, containment will be the order of the day.
BTW SY, how's your compassion the unfortunate people of Uzbekistan, now that Karimov is the US's new Saddam.
Lusso5 said:
Very few, if any, European countries are not guilty of that and I would not be so quick to crow if I were you. Your country is built upon the virtual destruction of its indigenous inhabitants.
rfbrw said:
No crowing here. Just had to making a starting point somewhere about Germany right?
As far as the U.S being built on the Native destruction.... I wouldn't "crow" so fast either. There were a few horrible atrocities in our past, no doubt, but virtual destruction was never the goal. The only virtual destruction among the indians was within themselves from fighting between tribes. Native Americans now enjoy rights that will never be given to other U.S. citizens.
Lusso5 said:
I would also urge you to be a bit more open on this one. There is significant evidence to the contrary if you look for it.
I'm not trying to slam anybody here, just trying to impress that there is a lot of evil behind a lot of history rewritten by the victors, stuff that I have learned slowly over the years. Hopefully, with grey hair will come realization that the "reality" you grew up surrounded by, created by everybody's own national media and educational system, if nothing else, does a disservice by painting things black and white
Who's "indigenous"? When do they become so?
As a general recommendation, I'd suggest that anyone interested in a broad perspective read Prof. Thomas Sowell's culture trilogy, "Migrations and Culture: A World View", "Race and Culture: A World View", and "Conquest and Culture: An International History". These can be pretty tough sledding, but they're superbly researched and written.
And, finally, one cannot have any perspective on history without having thoroughly digested Will and Ariel Durant.
As a general recommendation, I'd suggest that anyone interested in a broad perspective read Prof. Thomas Sowell's culture trilogy, "Migrations and Culture: A World View", "Race and Culture: A World View", and "Conquest and Culture: An International History". These can be pretty tough sledding, but they're superbly researched and written.
And, finally, one cannot have any perspective on history without having thoroughly digested Will and Ariel Durant.
leadbelly said:
If you mean there were those intent on their destruction, well of course. But as the general, or otherwise underlying policy of the U.S.... ?
I have my own view on this history. I take no one's conclusive word, and dont just regurgitate. I believe the U.S. then had the man & firepower to pound them to extiction if the order was so given. If, as you suggest, the true intention was virtual destruction of the American Indian, then I'm very interested as to why our superior forces did not succede.
Unless you mean the Vatican's siege upon converting them - well then I'd agree that was virtual destruction... 😉
I read Guns, Germs, & Steel by Jarod Diamond last fall, and I'm just starting to power-up again.
SY said:
Not a book I would normally buy. They had it on the end-cap in the Astro-Physics/Cosmology section; there just wasn't anything new. Nearly bought the Tesla Papers, but somehow ended up with this. Very bias, and I was expecting more, but it was worth the price, and I'm glad I went off my usual beaten path. I made plenty of notes in the margin, for my mother (who I loaned it to) to gripe about...
Digesting all that Thomas Sowell, SY ,makes me have to ask? Are you an entrepreneur? Care to divulge what it is you do for a living/have done? I'm just curious.
Lusso5 said:
They did. As Chris Rock puts it so well "When was the last time you saw more than one Indian together?"
And it was the policy. Read some of the things said by American presidents:
http://www.dickshovel.com/lsa3.html
leadbelly said:
Last Indians I saw was two weeks ago, in Oklahoma, when I dropped off some relatives to play slots at one of their, many, tax-free casinos.
😀
No doubt some were intent (I think I said that before) But again, I'm just curious where the U.S failed. I would think we could have easily exterminated them. Where did the plan fail? You say it was policy and plan to exterminate them, but they are here, in more numbers than you are willing to admit, with a powerfull Casino lobby, and revenues in the tens of billions per year. So either the policy you mention failed, or it was changed; so which is it, and why?
SY said:
Screwcaps or not, we'll always need to un-"cork" something, just for the nostalgia; and cork just doesnt stack up.
You ought to market my area http://www.texaswinetrail.com/mappage.htm
I live a few miles from #5 Driftwood Vineyards.
Lusso5 said:
You are pre-supposing a condition and asking a rheorical question. I already said I think the US was successful. Where did you come up with criteria that 100% extermination is the only criteria for success? An attempt at genocide that is 95% "successful" (your terms) makes it pretty easy to confiscate all the resources of the victims.
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