my info :
-do not build speakers solely based on "looks". For instance the Voice of the Theater Altec is big and not the best looking speaker but it sounds ace
-if you are building wood, the wood used can play a significant role in your tone. DON'Ts : MDF!
-if you use x-over, you will need a trusted design
way back in the late 90's my first experiences with speaker building were very budget friendly. My first "project" involved a full range Fostex. I tweaked it quite a bit , i am still happy how that turned out and i still have that driver. That is my 2 cents advice
-do not build speakers solely based on "looks". For instance the Voice of the Theater Altec is big and not the best looking speaker but it sounds ace
-if you are building wood, the wood used can play a significant role in your tone. DON'Ts : MDF!
-if you use x-over, you will need a trusted design
way back in the late 90's my first experiences with speaker building were very budget friendly. My first "project" involved a full range Fostex. I tweaked it quite a bit , i am still happy how that turned out and i still have that driver. That is my 2 cents advice
It is true that a FR driver is, as yet, incapable of 10 octaves. The best reach close to 9½ octaves. There is no reason a FR can;t produce just as much bass as a midbass. It just has to do so while maintaining response up to 20k. A much more difficulat job.
A multiway does not inherently go lower than a FR. But finding one that does that well is difficult, but the best modern FRs do this.
MA Alpair 10.3/10p in FHXL is an example. CHN-110 a value leader.
The FR brings NO crossover. Crossover’s are evil. And one of the worst places to put one is between 2-4kHz, right where a cone+dome crosses over.
A FR (wide range) driver has its compromises but we look to then to avoid the compromises of a typical 2-way. AFAIC if you have an XO it should be 200-500 Hz or so, where the worst evils of XOs tend yo disappear (it all has to do with wavelengths)
To say a multiway is an easier build ignores the fact you have 2x as many holes, 2 x as many drivers, an XO to assemble. How are all those pieces going to be the same quality as a pair of FRs of the same cost?
We build FRs because of what they do well and because their faults are ones we can live with (because they often fall outside the actual use of the loudspeaker).
Choose your compromises, essentially quality (2 drivers) vrs quantity(4 drivers + XO).
A diyer building loudspeakers rarely ever builds just one pair. And what they understand after the build is much more complete than before the build and the results (for that particualr listener) will guide the path to the next pair.
Follow your inclination, build a single driver loudspeaker and see where you are. It might just spoil you for anything else, it may not.
dave
Some fullrange drivers, for ideas-what's involved- cutting wood, building ,etc.. Also some sound demos.-
https://soundblab.net/build-plans/
https://soundblab.net/build-plans/
I agree that buying second hand active monitors would buy u better sound for the money plus other benefits, but not the satisfaction of building yourself. If Planet 10 has some surplus drivers you can have for cheap, then its another case. If you only lived in Denmark I would give you some of mine. Behringer Truth is another active posibility. -Older model so probly many used around, I payed 200 dollars for set 5 years ago.
Good luck Chers!
Good luck Chers!
No I haven’t build anything from them but, I have watched his videos on you tube on building his one kits.
I am just curious. How does the CHN-110 compare with the more expensive CHR-120 as a driver that could extent 9.5 octaves. In other words, Is the CHR-120 a contender or a pretender. The world might like to know. I believe one of the costs is a much bigger cabinet.
Hi Dave. I had a few questions for you? So I Noticed you Recommended These pairs of Mark Audio’s Driver’s.It is true that a FR driver is, as yet, incapable of 10 octaves. The best reach close to 9½ octaves. There is no reason a FR can;t produce just as much bass as a midbass. It just has to do so while maintaining response up to 20k. A much more difficulat job.
A multiway does not inherently go lower than a FR. But finding one that does that well is difficult, but the best modern FRs do this.
MA Alpair 10.3/10p in FHXL is an example. CHN-110 a value leader.
The FR brings NO crossover. Crossover’s are evil. And one of the worst places to put one is between 2-4kHz, right where a cone+dome crosses over.
A FR (wide range) driver has its compromises but we look to then to avoid the compromises of a typical 2-way. AFAIC if you have an XO it should be 200-500 Hz or so, where the worst evils of XOs tend yo disappear (it all has to do with wavelengths)
To say a multiway is an easier build ignores the fact you have 2x as many holes, 2 x as many drivers, an XO to assemble. How are all those pieces going to be the same quality as a pair of FRs of the same cost?
We build FRs because of what they do well and because their faults are ones we can live with (because they often fall outside the actual use of the loudspeaker).
Choose your compromises, essentially quality (2 drivers) vrs quantity(4 drivers + XO).
A diyer building loudspeakers rarely ever builds just one pair. And what they understand after the build is much more complete than before the build and the results (for that particualr listener) will guide the path to the next pair.
Follow your inclination, build a single driver loudspeaker and see where you are. It might just spoil you for anything else, it may not.
dave
1.Alpair 10.3.
2.Alpair 10 paper.
3.CHN-110 (Value leader).
Have you listened to these other drivers from Mark Audio to do any comparison’s?
1.MS 11’s.
2.MAOP 11’s (Almost double the money of any Mark Audios in their current line.
I was wonder if these drivers are really worth it over the Alpair stuff? I know the MAOP driver’s are a costly cone and driver to make. Are they really that much better in sound? Thanks again. Jeff
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I have listened to many… for a while all of them. Not heard the new CHRs or even seem any.
dave
dave
The best one for me is the Alpair 10.3, the CHN110 is best price/quality (close to the Alpair 10.3 but half price). The 10P has a sound that is more like oldskool fullrange drivers, with a rolled of top, but strong bass capacities almost equal as the 10.3. I use both the 10.3 and CHN110 in my personal setups.
The 11MS is less broadband, but fit's better for smaller cabinets. Many like it above the 10.3, but not me. The MAOP11 is the no cost spared variation of it, so it's slightly better due to the cone, but often way more expensive. All differences are small altough, for me the price diffference does nto corrolate to a equal quality difference. If you like it i can't tell.
The 11MS is less broadband, but fit's better for smaller cabinets. Many like it above the 10.3, but not me. The MAOP11 is the no cost spared variation of it, so it's slightly better due to the cone, but often way more expensive. All differences are small altough, for me the price diffference does nto corrolate to a equal quality difference. If you like it i can't tell.
I've had VERY good experiences with a Visaton BG20 driver. It beams quite a bit, because it's an 8" but it sounds really good. I remember making this project https://web.archive.org/web/2017021...ects.com/visaton-bg20-single-driver-speakers/ maybe it's too big.
I've also tested the TB W4-1337SDF in this design. Sounded really good, and also goes quite low for a 4" fullrange. I don't have any experience with the Mark Audio speakers but they seem splendid drivers for the price.
I've also tested the TB W4-1337SDF in this design. Sounded really good, and also goes quite low for a 4" fullrange. I don't have any experience with the Mark Audio speakers but they seem splendid drivers for the price.
HI. I am so grateful that you posted this. I would like to build micro towers for my small room, but there are so many variations on them. Could you please post some photos and dimensions of yours? If there is no crossover, how do you connect the drivers? And the last question, where can I find / buy drawings?
best r.
Andrew
Hi Andrew. Some photos of my cabinets are in this thread https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/microtower-revisited.364581/page-11#post-6569709
On the first post of of that thread is a link to follow to get Dave's plan set . These speakers started with a driver that was different from the original driver and has a bigger (deeper) magnet. So to make them fit and keep the bracing, I doubled the front baffle and the top baffle. I'll try to get the dimensions today. They took a long time at low volume for the drivers to really shine. It was over a week of constant playing in the basement until they reached full potential. Lastly the stuffing was tuned to get the low end performance. Hope this helps
On the first post of of that thread is a link to follow to get Dave's plan set . These speakers started with a driver that was different from the original driver and has a bigger (deeper) magnet. So to make them fit and keep the bracing, I doubled the front baffle and the top baffle. I'll try to get the dimensions today. They took a long time at low volume for the drivers to really shine. It was over a week of constant playing in the basement until they reached full potential. Lastly the stuffing was tuned to get the low end performance. Hope this helps
Attachments
Thanks, but they're too big for me. I even thought about half towers, but I can't find the tests anywhere. Does anybody know how they sound?
Thank you. So I found this pdf, http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/microTower-maps-020615.pdf, and I don't see the drawing of the version with the driver on the top. Still not sure how to make stuffing. When it comes to the baffle for the top driver, it is not clear from this pdf what the baffle should look like. Where can I find or buy drawings for Pluvia 7 HD and the CHN-110 drivers?
Since there are a zillion options.
Here are the ones i have - in the middle between the Mar-Kel70 Compact floorstanders and the FH-Lite, grills obscure the drivers.
dave