Thanks so much for this info! It truly looks like my once very long, fearful and confusing on and off quest these last nine years for a genuinely "safe bet" satisfying tube preamp is over. I remember long ago being at once fascinated and dismayed during long chats here with Island Pink-a brilliant DIYer of tube amps. He'd go on about some of his favorite input tubes like the Siemens C3M and the 4P1L. Both were long since OOP and the latter he said while producing amazingly life like mids and highs and (maybe?) a large 3D sound stage was prone to microphonics issues that could be hard to eliminate. Around the same time at Lynn Olson’s thread I’d read his big historical posts on audio tube evolution; fxuking awesome the depth of his depth of design knowledge and hands-on. His Kara, Raven, Amity and other 300B p-p amp builds were then later hugely refined when he collaborated with Gary Dahl. Not long afterwards Gary built Gary Pimm’s Tabor amp and then an even (said Gary) better sounding all SS Pimm amp using very high grade output transformers. Some kind special cascode design which I believe Dahl still loves today for driving his vintage Yamaha JA6681B/JMLC AH425 horns atop 3 cu ft sealed Altec 416-8B midwoofers. Of course, all those amps were custom made by brainiacs using $$$ parts. And possibly at this moment the new 300B p-p which Lynn and Don Sachs had co-designed is being built to drive Lynn’s new speakers-B & C DMC50/JMLC AH340 atop sealed Altec 416-8B. http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/300b project.html
So, when I visited here http://www.tubes4hifi.com/PH16.htm I was further heartened to read Dons’ praises of Roy’s SP14; and then this. http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom tube phono stage.html
After all of these years, my tube preamp story will finally have a happy ending, and within a couple of months of my new speaker build.
Yes. One our class books. https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-communication-Robert-L-Shrader/dp/0070571503
US vinyl produced in the '60's V '80's has distinct tonal improvement- Technology advanced
Listening... Doors or Beatles -V- Van Halen or Metallica are markedly different sonically
Then- from these multi track original recordings ripped to CD's, that sonic difference is codified.
Sonic differences will come out based on the above time frame recorded- cant make up for what wasn't there then- IMO
Can it be replaced w/ AI or new preamp design?
Dont think so- live the moment
Jim
Listening... Doors or Beatles -V- Van Halen or Metallica are markedly different sonically
Then- from these multi track original recordings ripped to CD's, that sonic difference is codified.
Sonic differences will come out based on the above time frame recorded- cant make up for what wasn't there then- IMO
Can it be replaced w/ AI or new preamp design?
Dont think so- live the moment
Jim
Probably so. But my F4 amp still needs a high output line stage and I'm very fortunate to be introduced to the SP14 just in time. The real balancing act will be deciding on drivers which will reward my ears for playing SACDs and high res downloads, while not accentuating the worst aspects of my less then stellar CDs. That's about the most that I can expect, I guess.
As a comparative control reference (es), in your experience, which respectably designed commercial and/or DIY solid state amps, preamps do and do not have these preferred sonic capabilities?
Honestly, I haven't heard much SS equipment in years. For a number of years I worked part-time at a stereo shop. We sold the usual stuff, Rotel, NAD, etc. All of it sounded pretty awful to me, except our YBA line, which was lively and clean, but still somewhat glossy and artifical-sounding. Some of the British SS equipment is at least pleasant and musical, like Cambridge, Naim and Arcam. But many years ago I heard a Cary 300B amp with a pair of ProAc Studios and that was that. I was completely floored by the realistic sound of voices and instruments. I started DIYing my own amps, SE for a long time, then PP. So if you asked me to recommend a SS preamp I wouldn't have a clue.
This week I had enough free time to head back to school with Amir, who many trust for giving among the best crash courses on audio measurement concepts, procedures for implementing them and observing and evaluating their results:
And then finally this big tutorial on speaker measurements.
It’s fair to say that except for twisted pair balanced and unbalanced interconnect cables https://kimber.com/products/PBJ , Amir made it clear to me that virtually all other “exotics” are out the window, even if he’s only using earbuds to do comparative listening tests. Cases in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkmwcPdTlWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLghg0QXPzs
Likewise, regarding DAC reviews (e.g. Holo May DAC), even to the skeptical audiophile, Amir’s explanations of digital conversion, DAC design concepts and performance measurement criteria are immensely plausible.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...derstanding-digital-audio-measurements.10523/
Again, AFAIK, most of his listening tests are done with earbuds or headphones, presumably selected to be of measured performance equaling Amir’s reference measured standards and hardware, and properly impedance loaded to the devices under test.
Of course, as you may have guessed, where we get into trouble are our views and experiences on equally well-designed tube and solid state amps and preamps experiences with either of these amplifier topologies. But by “equally well designed” meaning, for example, 300B amps and 6SN7 preamps with measured frequency response and noise nearly as good as most of the dozen or so best solid-state amps (regardless of wpc) and preamps Amir had reviewed over the few years.
But assuming most of some of our favorite (and affordable) tube hardware can (mostly) measure up to Amir’s criteria (??), the metrics that will all too likely get any tube amp nowhere near Amir’s test bench is 2nd, much less 3rd harmonic distortion-and that’s even if the IM distortion of a given tube amp were likely low enough to be inaudible.
In any case, it’s not as owners haven’t submitted their $1xK hardware to Amir for review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ab01E84R0 Thus, consider tube hardware where all distortions were surely minimized, such as these recently codesigned by Don Sachs and Lynn Olson. https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/revelation-preamp-item-page https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/revelation-blackbird
Then, however unlikely that Amir would have the opportunity and be willing to review the Revelation preamp, after perhaps being generally impressed with the measurements, what do you suppose would be Amir’s reaction during listening tests compared to a previously reviewed Topping preamp?
This was why I tried to suggest here that Amir consider reviewing the affordable and highly reputable SP14.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...id-state-amplifiers.10407/page-6#post-1914465
But try as I did, I couldn’t penetrate that perennial wall of bias driven excuses among Amir’s followers.
That is also why I had asked if you’ve ever heard any solid-state amps which you may have found at all enjoyable. If yes, then I might have had a more credible argument to thereby request that Amir and/or others at that thread do their own measurements AND listening tests on the SP14 (kit) or at least the Aikido Noval line stage Rev E.
Who knows for sure why none of them were up for it.
Richard Feynman: "What do you care what other people think?" ASR fanboys gotta fan, why would you need their affirmation?
"Do those controls and you’ll find that the Aikido sounds no different than any other decent preamp, tube or otherwise."
Please. Julian Hirsch is dead, let him rest in peace. Just because he lost his hearing doesn't mean that the rest of us have as well.
"Do those controls and you’ll find that the Aikido sounds no different than any other decent preamp, tube or otherwise."
Please. Julian Hirsch is dead, let him rest in peace. Just because he lost his hearing doesn't mean that the rest of us have as well.
"Which Preamp for Less Than Great Sounding CDs?"
My view is that whatever exists in your system can only further worsen the overall quality of a bad recording since I don't believe that there is an audio component capable to increase the low "acoustic" quality of a bad recording, not even an equalizer (if not in theory).
Also because in practice it is you who then has to get there to equalize the bad albums or even the single bad tracks and in my opinion this can only further worsen your compliance, for what it's worth: I personally would never do it.
In some (rare?) favorable cases a system without a preamp (and without the related double pair of cables) might give you better results than one with. IMO
However, I would rather use the brain's default features to enhance the enjoyability (certainly not the quality) of those bad tracks.
My view is that whatever exists in your system can only further worsen the overall quality of a bad recording since I don't believe that there is an audio component capable to increase the low "acoustic" quality of a bad recording, not even an equalizer (if not in theory).
Also because in practice it is you who then has to get there to equalize the bad albums or even the single bad tracks and in my opinion this can only further worsen your compliance, for what it's worth: I personally would never do it.
In some (rare?) favorable cases a system without a preamp (and without the related double pair of cables) might give you better results than one with. IMO
However, I would rather use the brain's default features to enhance the enjoyability (certainly not the quality) of those bad tracks.
I pretty much agree with that.
We cannot add what is missing in a copy, but we can easily amplify what is poorly done.
The only two preamps that got me out of bed at night to listen to music were an AGI 511 and a Rappaport PRE 1.
Like an *******, I sold them "in search of something better"...
We cannot add what is missing in a copy, but we can easily amplify what is poorly done.
The only two preamps that got me out of bed at night to listen to music were an AGI 511 and a Rappaport PRE 1.
Like an *******, I sold them "in search of something better"...
Sound System:
Last week, I set up my two mono-block balanced tube amplifiers with individual passive shunt volume controls; all solid state CD player with balanced XLR outputs, Pro-Ac Tablette Signature 2000 speakers (I modified the crossover slightly), and put all that on 3 different pieces of furniture.
There is no preamp in my system.
I have been enjoying the listening now that it is set up again!
Good Audio CDs (non music):
There was a mention of Dr. Richard P. Feynman in Post # 90 . . . Thanks rayma!
A very interesting man.
I have on CDs:
"Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman"; "Why Do You Care What Other People Think"; "The Very Best of the Feynman Lectures" (Physics);
"Perfectly Reasonable Deviations from the beaten track"; and "Selected Letters of Richard P. Feynman".
It is time for me to listen to those again.
Last week, I set up my two mono-block balanced tube amplifiers with individual passive shunt volume controls; all solid state CD player with balanced XLR outputs, Pro-Ac Tablette Signature 2000 speakers (I modified the crossover slightly), and put all that on 3 different pieces of furniture.
There is no preamp in my system.
I have been enjoying the listening now that it is set up again!
Good Audio CDs (non music):
There was a mention of Dr. Richard P. Feynman in Post # 90 . . . Thanks rayma!
A very interesting man.
I have on CDs:
"Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman"; "Why Do You Care What Other People Think"; "The Very Best of the Feynman Lectures" (Physics);
"Perfectly Reasonable Deviations from the beaten track"; and "Selected Letters of Richard P. Feynman".
It is time for me to listen to those again.
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Not even in mine, or even any PC.
And I don't even use the CD player anymore (Marantz CD-94MkII untouched), but PCM 16bit 44.1kHz files (and I don't ask for anything better) ripped with CD-ROM Plextor and a great little program that a very smart and generous programmer compiled so many years ago and which represents an improvement on EAC in relation to the perfect calculation of the CD drive offset (number of samples), but it was never recognized as such because by then the accuracy checksum databases were already well advanced and no one had either the will or the authority to change things, but that's another story...
I know what you're talking about, it happened to me the same not many years ago with a self-built LDR "preamp" (really, a LDR volume control with few inputs switch) that sounded really great in my system at the time.
Okay, so I know it don't count for much, but I wish I could some day have witnessed an event like Amir's reaction to this very particular kind of Troy Crowe shootout between two kinds of driver configurations-one where I was shocked to learn that the top Fostex rich sounding" alnico tweeter adds considerable 2nd harmonic distortion. And furthermore in this video, how Troy deduced that it's also the 2nd harmonic distortion in the preamp in this set up chain which likewise improved the sound of the 18 Sound driver-the same model Don Sachs preamp which I luckily pounced on last month, all thanks to Pierre's speedly reply.
For brevity, you can start here at 5:19.
I wonder if we'll ever really know why so many human ears-whether their owners are aware of it or not-seem to prefer hearing music plus some percentage of this particular distortion. Too bad that someone as sharp as Amir apparently lets their prejuidice outweigh their curiosity against finding out why.
I need to decide soon if it's worth shipping my pair of https://www.usspeaker.com/radian 745neoBepb-1.htm to Troy to finish my speaker build, though in the case of these drivers the precise horn choice and EQ for a two-way design, plus my Don Sachs preamp could make it all sound every bit as good as that SB Acoustics/Fostex configuration. Otherwise, if anyone's interested, I may offer these brand new drivers for sale at a good price.
Indeed, it's miraculous that Troy's been long running his listening tests with our DS2 preamp; what Don built when he heard Roy Mottram's SP14 http://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm But the real miracle will be if my speaker build and this preamp blow me away playing my great sounding CD tracks while at least not accentuating the worst flaws in my most treasured but poorer sounding ones, as things like even the best rated Windows EQ plug-ins will probably just make it all sound worse.
For brevity, you can start here at 5:19.
I wonder if we'll ever really know why so many human ears-whether their owners are aware of it or not-seem to prefer hearing music plus some percentage of this particular distortion. Too bad that someone as sharp as Amir apparently lets their prejuidice outweigh their curiosity against finding out why.
I need to decide soon if it's worth shipping my pair of https://www.usspeaker.com/radian 745neoBepb-1.htm to Troy to finish my speaker build, though in the case of these drivers the precise horn choice and EQ for a two-way design, plus my Don Sachs preamp could make it all sound every bit as good as that SB Acoustics/Fostex configuration. Otherwise, if anyone's interested, I may offer these brand new drivers for sale at a good price.
Indeed, it's miraculous that Troy's been long running his listening tests with our DS2 preamp; what Don built when he heard Roy Mottram's SP14 http://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm But the real miracle will be if my speaker build and this preamp blow me away playing my great sounding CD tracks while at least not accentuating the worst flaws in my most treasured but poorer sounding ones, as things like even the best rated Windows EQ plug-ins will probably just make it all sound worse.