I've tried to obtain the AD1955 eval board from all of the current vendors, and none have them in stock. Further, Digikey wants to cross with another eval board, likely the AD1953. Of course, I'm not an R&D or development engineer at a viable audio company likely to purchase a bunch of chips, but then only one vendor even asked me. It appears that the only way anyone is going to get an AD1955 eval board at the moment is if they actually are in a development position and they go through a rep that knows as such. I think this is a fool's errand for DIY.
Dave, I do have a question about the blackfin interface though. Does it look possible to retrofit the TCP/IP functionality to an existing product that already has the blackfin processor already on board, say with an AD chip designed for such that could be daughter-boarded?
I see that the Cambridge Audio 840C has this DSP and also employs the AD1955 DACs. My interest at the moment is to have a DAC for use as a high-end network media device, such as the Slim Devices Transporter, and thus an RJ-45 Ethernet interface, but that employs something other than a stock datasheet output stage with some super regs. It appears that Slim Devices just used the suggested AKM stage with the 5534s, and I am quite sure that a better-designed DAC can be implemented in such a device. The Cambridge appears to be a potential for the addition of the TCP/IP functionality.
If by chance you are currently developing such a product, can you possibly give a time frame for availability?
Dave, I do have a question about the blackfin interface though. Does it look possible to retrofit the TCP/IP functionality to an existing product that already has the blackfin processor already on board, say with an AD chip designed for such that could be daughter-boarded?
I see that the Cambridge Audio 840C has this DSP and also employs the AD1955 DACs. My interest at the moment is to have a DAC for use as a high-end network media device, such as the Slim Devices Transporter, and thus an RJ-45 Ethernet interface, but that employs something other than a stock datasheet output stage with some super regs. It appears that Slim Devices just used the suggested AKM stage with the 5534s, and I am quite sure that a better-designed DAC can be implemented in such a device. The Cambridge appears to be a potential for the addition of the TCP/IP functionality.
If by chance you are currently developing such a product, can you possibly give a time frame for availability?
NVD33 said:
Sorry Vincent I miss-understood what you were asking.
🙄
Hacking a PC board would work, if you can get a decent connection to the digital side of the DAC after the PCI interface. You'll probably have to remove or sever the PC interface chips, and perhaps create an interface for your own SPI or I2S input, unless you're using the sound boards SPDIF input. The analog section might need work if you'd like balanced out. Personally I prefer balanced out since this chip has an awesome voltage out balanced configuration natively. Seems a shame to sum the phases into single ended output and not be able to take advantage of the noise rejection capability of the chip in the value chain. Given the extreme potential of the AKM chip, balanced out really helps squeeze the last % of audio capability by ensuring the noise floor is at a minimum. You can hear the difference!
Some real benefits of the AKM eval board are - it's small form factor, milspec opamp sockets for switching opamps or adding a small board with descrete components, excellent ground plane design, and through hole passive components for easy upgrades or mods.
-David
niles said:
Hi Niles,
I am associated with a company developing a product. The availability is a year away.
BTW, we have tested the AKM 4396 both subjectively and objectively and the NJM5534D sounded and measured the best. I have a link into the engeering team at Slimdevices and they came to the same conclusion concerning the AKM 4396.
One viable DIY option is the Roku product. It's less expensive then the SB3 and nearly as capable. They also offer an OEM eval board. http://www.rokulabs.com/ It has the same technical limitations as the SB3, in that bandwith is limited to 24/48. Perfectly fine for 16/44. Striping the Roku of it's case and mounting it into your own box with a good DAC board would work. The Roku uses the Analog Devices Blackfin DSP with both 802.3 and 802.11 network interfaces. A great DIY hacker board as a starting place.
The Blackfin has the eithernet MAC built in and all that's needed is a decent PHY chip. The AD Blackfin BF537 ezkit comes with an 802.3 wired ethernet capability, but requires some software development to make it work. The associated SDK and development environment (VisualDSP++ 4.5) is free and comes with a basic tcp/ip stack. The board also run ucLinux.
Analog's SHARC requires an external MAC/PHY to get ethernet running.
The Blackfin is a great 16 bit platform as a network interface (ethernet, USB, SPI, I2S inputs and SPI and I2S outputs) and for simple DSP sound transformation. It can handle 24/96 audio, but with more overhead since it's a native 16 bit DSP.
The SHARC is a 32 bit native DSP that is 100x faster. The SHARC also has 8 ASRC1896 sample rate converters and enough processing power and ports to handle heavy data transformations for 24/192 for a home theater set-up.
The Roku is worth a look as a DIY starting point. Next week I'm contacting them to get more info on their OEM board, and better understand it's flexibility.
I have not listened to the Cambridge CD player, but either Stereophile or TAS this month had high praise for it.
Personally, I'd scare up a DAC eval board and connect a Roku or SB3, and use my old CD player as a transport - along with a PC as a transport. You will probably exceed the sonic quality of the Cambridge and have fun tinkering with the configuration.
Just a thought. Cambridge's software partner in Switzerland is VERY well known for their engineering capability, and I'd bet it sounds great. Lots of choices!
-David
David:
Wow, thanks for the Roku suggestion! I actually have two m500s already and an sb3. I could easily sacrifice one of the Rokus for playing around, and it never even occurred to me that I already had half of my potential project already in the wireless ethernet functionality from a Roku. I unintentionally mixed the sharc with the blackfin above, but really meant the blackfin.
I am certain that the Slim Devices engineering team is a competent group (engineering to a price point and for a profitable product), but I have lingering questions the value of the Transporter at its current price point, even while still considering the purchase of one. And for me, a discrete output stage would really separate a product from the field.
Though what has me truly mystified is that there hasn't been more product brought to market sporting either wired or wireless Ethernet functionality in addition to the typical Toslink/SP/DIF/AESEBU. It is apparently an easy implementation based on your comments when the blackfin is employed, and allows for the complete elimination of clock-embeded data transmission over the very limited SP/DIF interface. That by itself should be seen as some sort of boon, aside from the ability to connect a DAC/CD player to a PC for additional use as a media player. I cant be alon in desiring this.
Now if I could just get my hands on an AD1955 eval board, I would be most of the way there. I guess I could try the AKM eval board, but is AKM going to balk at sending one out to an unincorporated garage audio" business"?
I see that anagram has an eval board with the complete dsp and 2 1955 is dual-differential mode for 500 Euro (thanks for the hint). Have you obtained one yet and had a listen? It must be quite similar to the Cambridge, which seem to employ the same implementation. This could be an interesting project.
Wow, thanks for the Roku suggestion! I actually have two m500s already and an sb3. I could easily sacrifice one of the Rokus for playing around, and it never even occurred to me that I already had half of my potential project already in the wireless ethernet functionality from a Roku. I unintentionally mixed the sharc with the blackfin above, but really meant the blackfin.
I am certain that the Slim Devices engineering team is a competent group (engineering to a price point and for a profitable product), but I have lingering questions the value of the Transporter at its current price point, even while still considering the purchase of one. And for me, a discrete output stage would really separate a product from the field.
Though what has me truly mystified is that there hasn't been more product brought to market sporting either wired or wireless Ethernet functionality in addition to the typical Toslink/SP/DIF/AESEBU. It is apparently an easy implementation based on your comments when the blackfin is employed, and allows for the complete elimination of clock-embeded data transmission over the very limited SP/DIF interface. That by itself should be seen as some sort of boon, aside from the ability to connect a DAC/CD player to a PC for additional use as a media player. I cant be alon in desiring this.
Now if I could just get my hands on an AD1955 eval board, I would be most of the way there. I guess I could try the AKM eval board, but is AKM going to balk at sending one out to an unincorporated garage audio" business"?
I see that anagram has an eval board with the complete dsp and 2 1955 is dual-differential mode for 500 Euro (thanks for the hint). Have you obtained one yet and had a listen? It must be quite similar to the Cambridge, which seem to employ the same implementation. This could be an interesting project.
Hi Niles,
I have not had a chance to audition the Anagram board. The audio industry is watching what is happening in terms of a potential market with the Transporter. The Transporter is an awesome product all around. You will be sorry if you take the plunge. It is expensive though.
All the DSP and DAC configuration work is happening at the mid and upper mid-fi market in the surround sound receivers. Some models even have 802.3 wired ethernet. Our HiFi market is still seen as boutique.
I agree with you that there is a huge market. The cost of R&D and components are fallen to a price cross over point that's starting to get attention. There are great products currently available, but they are limited to 16/44. 16/48, or 24/48 - the exception being a few front runners like the Slimdevices Transporter. I've heard second hand the company has gotten a lot of customer input for a Transporter without the DAC. The DAC section of the Transporter is very close in design to the AKM4396 eval board in terms of the schematics.
It generally takes 18-24 months to bring a product to market and really in the last year the needed chips have started to appear to enable the stuff to be manufactured within the right cost envelope. A year from now more will be available.
It's interesting how normally mid level products trickle down from premium highend products. From what I've seen and heard talking with various companies, the highend is waiting until the mid range and lower end force component and software IP prices down and the body of engeering knowledge to develop. A person can see this happening by the evidence that the mid-range is using very high quality components like the DAC and DSP chips. It's almost impossible to enter the hifi market as a start-up, and the most of the current hifi manufactures know that there customer base is slow in willingness to adopt new technology.
A lot of the market research our company has completed shows the market dynamics are changing. One study we conducted at a national level was 80% of music listeners are either willing or already have digital music on their computers.
I agree with you, the marketing is maturing for change and there is customer demand.
A friend of mine has a home theater business here in Northern California. He has 4 crews, his installed solution range from $85K to $250K, and he is booked out several months. At these budget levels he throws a Transporter in the mix. If that is not enough, he adds a $10K DAC. Most of the hifi market is $10-$20K on up. The market itself needs to expand and there is proof that the right dynamics are in place to enable it. That will create product opportunity. The market research has been fascinating.
-David
I have not had a chance to audition the Anagram board. The audio industry is watching what is happening in terms of a potential market with the Transporter. The Transporter is an awesome product all around. You will be sorry if you take the plunge. It is expensive though.
All the DSP and DAC configuration work is happening at the mid and upper mid-fi market in the surround sound receivers. Some models even have 802.3 wired ethernet. Our HiFi market is still seen as boutique.
I agree with you that there is a huge market. The cost of R&D and components are fallen to a price cross over point that's starting to get attention. There are great products currently available, but they are limited to 16/44. 16/48, or 24/48 - the exception being a few front runners like the Slimdevices Transporter. I've heard second hand the company has gotten a lot of customer input for a Transporter without the DAC. The DAC section of the Transporter is very close in design to the AKM4396 eval board in terms of the schematics.
It generally takes 18-24 months to bring a product to market and really in the last year the needed chips have started to appear to enable the stuff to be manufactured within the right cost envelope. A year from now more will be available.
It's interesting how normally mid level products trickle down from premium highend products. From what I've seen and heard talking with various companies, the highend is waiting until the mid range and lower end force component and software IP prices down and the body of engeering knowledge to develop. A person can see this happening by the evidence that the mid-range is using very high quality components like the DAC and DSP chips. It's almost impossible to enter the hifi market as a start-up, and the most of the current hifi manufactures know that there customer base is slow in willingness to adopt new technology.
A lot of the market research our company has completed shows the market dynamics are changing. One study we conducted at a national level was 80% of music listeners are either willing or already have digital music on their computers.
I agree with you, the marketing is maturing for change and there is customer demand.
A friend of mine has a home theater business here in Northern California. He has 4 crews, his installed solution range from $85K to $250K, and he is booked out several months. At these budget levels he throws a Transporter in the mix. If that is not enough, he adds a $10K DAC. Most of the hifi market is $10-$20K on up. The market itself needs to expand and there is proof that the right dynamics are in place to enable it. That will create product opportunity. The market research has been fascinating.
-David
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