How About Some Chinese Drivers suitable for OB Design?
I am looking for 15-21" woofers that are suitable for open baffle design, have you guys come across some that are made/readily availabe in China? Did a quick search on Taobao for Visition, Eminence, Hawthorne, etc. but none seem to be available in China...
Thanks in advance,
Jaz
I am looking for 15-21" woofers that are suitable for open baffle design, have you guys come across some that are made/readily availabe in China? Did a quick search on Taobao for Visition, Eminence, Hawthorne, etc. but none seem to be available in China...
Thanks in advance,
Jaz
another option
I also work in China. You can look at Cattylink as another option. I bought my E.sound Reference CD player from them. They also have speakers. They ship their equipment from their warehouse in Shenzhen. They were knowledgeable with regards to the Chinese brands and I had no problems with the transaction.
I also work in China. You can look at Cattylink as another option. I bought my E.sound Reference CD player from them. They also have speakers. They ship their equipment from their warehouse in Shenzhen. They were knowledgeable with regards to the Chinese brands and I had no problems with the transaction.
Hi,
Interesting Website. Looks a bit like E-Bay.
The speakers look like using using Gui Sound Drivers.
I looked into Gui Sound products repeatedly, these drivers are neither very efficient, nor do they have a good frequency response (see datasheet).
http://www.artmaydan.org.ua/temp/Gui/UR330B8-11F.pdf
The woodwork is nice though.
These drivers front looks like some of the russian Lomo Units, but these had serious cast chassis, not stamped sheet metal.
These look good for hornloading. Or using as midrange/treble with extra active woofer or in D3L2QD, will need some high frequency EQ though, also look Gui Sound made.
This one had me quite interested, until I checked the TS Parameters for consistency. This driver (at least at low frequencies) is at best 89dB/2.83V (also can be seen in the frequency response), not 94dB as claimed. The data is also inconsistent.
Shame, if there was a driver with such build and REAL 94dB/2.83V, Qt ~1 and 50Hz resonance at this price it would be a great alternative to the Supravox drivers. Shame that all that performance is a pure fake, as it could be actually be achieved if the designer had done his homework (Supravox in France does).
Very interesting window into what goes on in chinese DIY circles though.
Ciao T
Interesting Website. Looks a bit like E-Bay.
The speakers look like using using Gui Sound Drivers.
I looked into Gui Sound products repeatedly, these drivers are neither very efficient, nor do they have a good frequency response (see datasheet).
http://www.artmaydan.org.ua/temp/Gui/UR330B8-11F.pdf
The woodwork is nice though.
These drivers front looks like some of the russian Lomo Units, but these had serious cast chassis, not stamped sheet metal.
These look good for hornloading. Or using as midrange/treble with extra active woofer or in D3L2QD, will need some high frequency EQ though, also look Gui Sound made.
This one had me quite interested, until I checked the TS Parameters for consistency. This driver (at least at low frequencies) is at best 89dB/2.83V (also can be seen in the frequency response), not 94dB as claimed. The data is also inconsistent.
Shame, if there was a driver with such build and REAL 94dB/2.83V, Qt ~1 and 50Hz resonance at this price it would be a great alternative to the Supravox drivers. Shame that all that performance is a pure fake, as it could be actually be achieved if the designer had done his homework (Supravox in France does).
Very interesting window into what goes on in chinese DIY circles though.
Ciao T
I know Taobao (that's what it's called). Never been able to do proper searching for DIY speaker stuff there though.
I've been working here for 6 months now, and one thing becomes very clear (and by no means do I mean any disrespect with this, but...); The chinese are generally very good at copying something, ripping out the good stuff, and replacing it with cheap stuff that with some luck, matches 60% of the original quality. I'm afraid to say this goes all the way to the aviation industry. I'm not saying this is necessarily bad, because it does allow for some brilliant things to be had cheaply, and they may last long enough to live until the product is up for replacement anyway (a bit like mobile phones...).
Also, most of the chinese stuff, although maybe not always up to scratch for quality, can always be worked with, and it gives interesting possibilities.
One thing though, is that more often than not people here in SHanghai "exaggerate" specs and characteristics etc. Just like that sensitivity of those drivers mentioned on taobao. That's just how it works here, and that is how you should approach whatever you buy. There are some reputable places, and obviously they come at a premium.
For this reason I would not buy tannoy's from taobao, even they are 30% cheaper than in the shops: simple; they are not tannoy's, they are copies...
For example, I think the links just provided, gave some good ideas for speaker cabinets cheaply! All I would need doing, is obtain some real decent drivers and crossovers to match (if any, which I think is pretty minimalistic for single driver units, right?).
This leads me to the next question, mostly directed to our chinese speaking friends: Can someone provide me with some more links for speaker cabinets?
I know some people may think the CAV speaker designs are a bit excessive, but actually, I think they are original. I like the curves they have. This is why I originally considered the CAVs. Now if I could find a place that has the cabinets of for example the CAV Spirit series, or even better:
If someone can get me Sonus Faber Cremona Elipsa clones or Cremona M clones, that'd be awesome! If I could get hold of some Cremona Elipse clones, i can mod them using troelgravesen's crossovers and driver units
I've been working here for 6 months now, and one thing becomes very clear (and by no means do I mean any disrespect with this, but...); The chinese are generally very good at copying something, ripping out the good stuff, and replacing it with cheap stuff that with some luck, matches 60% of the original quality. I'm afraid to say this goes all the way to the aviation industry. I'm not saying this is necessarily bad, because it does allow for some brilliant things to be had cheaply, and they may last long enough to live until the product is up for replacement anyway (a bit like mobile phones...).
Also, most of the chinese stuff, although maybe not always up to scratch for quality, can always be worked with, and it gives interesting possibilities.
One thing though, is that more often than not people here in SHanghai "exaggerate" specs and characteristics etc. Just like that sensitivity of those drivers mentioned on taobao. That's just how it works here, and that is how you should approach whatever you buy. There are some reputable places, and obviously they come at a premium.
For this reason I would not buy tannoy's from taobao, even they are 30% cheaper than in the shops: simple; they are not tannoy's, they are copies...
For example, I think the links just provided, gave some good ideas for speaker cabinets cheaply! All I would need doing, is obtain some real decent drivers and crossovers to match (if any, which I think is pretty minimalistic for single driver units, right?).
This leads me to the next question, mostly directed to our chinese speaking friends: Can someone provide me with some more links for speaker cabinets?
I know some people may think the CAV speaker designs are a bit excessive, but actually, I think they are original. I like the curves they have. This is why I originally considered the CAVs. Now if I could find a place that has the cabinets of for example the CAV Spirit series, or even better:
If someone can get me Sonus Faber Cremona Elipsa clones or Cremona M clones, that'd be awesome! If I could get hold of some Cremona Elipse clones, i can mod them using troelgravesen's crossovers and driver units
Hi,
The chinese full ranger drivers I have tested are better avoided.
There are two or three driver makers in China that are "world class" that I know. Only one has a full range HiFI Drivers (HiVi).
The stuff from Gui I came across was not as good as fostex fullrangers they copy and I would not use any of the fostex fullrange drivers voluntarily given their relatively poor performance.
PM me. I'll get the details for the custom enclosure place in Guangzhou that (among others) make good GRF-A copies. They CAN do everything and are quite honest, but expensive for chinese conditions.
Ciao T
PS, you really need to look at high efficiency (>95db/W/m) speakers, all else is a waste of time and money given your Amp...
The chinese full ranger drivers I have tested are better avoided.
There are two or three driver makers in China that are "world class" that I know. Only one has a full range HiFI Drivers (HiVi).
The stuff from Gui I came across was not as good as fostex fullrangers they copy and I would not use any of the fostex fullrange drivers voluntarily given their relatively poor performance.
PM me. I'll get the details for the custom enclosure place in Guangzhou that (among others) make good GRF-A copies. They CAN do everything and are quite honest, but expensive for chinese conditions.
Ciao T
PS, you really need to look at high efficiency (>95db/W/m) speakers, all else is a waste of time and money given your Amp...
If you can find them in china, Look for a brand called Volent. They use the same woofer as the Magico (forget which model) before Magico made them in house.
I heard these in Hong Kong. They were rather nice design - curved cabinets and the music was great. It was also much better than the new LS3/5As from Sterling(sp?).
There are also knock-offs of other designs - I would listen to them before even deciding whether to buy. Good news is that you can get a relatively good set of speakers cheaper than some of the insanely priced ones here in the US.
Bob
I heard these in Hong Kong. They were rather nice design - curved cabinets and the music was great. It was also much better than the new LS3/5As from Sterling(sp?).
There are also knock-offs of other designs - I would listen to them before even deciding whether to buy. Good news is that you can get a relatively good set of speakers cheaper than some of the insanely priced ones here in the US.
Bob
abraxalito,
"So far I've been very happy buying up fairly cheap (under 3000rmb) active speakers and heavily modding them."
Why and what mods are you doing to them? Heavily?!
ksporry,
That's my hope as well for my OB build - "rubbish" might be too strong a word though, perhaps "quality challenged" alas, nothing seems to be worth taking a chance on... I may just have to order the parts from the US... Anyway, Do you know where all the shops that used to be near the Suzhou Creek (not far from the People's Square) relocated to? I have not been there in awhile, the mall as since been closed down, there were some decent shops there... One shop had some decent 2nd hand gears that I particularly like, love to see what he has in stock these days.
Cheers,
Jaz
"So far I've been very happy buying up fairly cheap (under 3000rmb) active speakers and heavily modding them."
Why and what mods are you doing to them? Heavily?!
There are indeed some undiscovered gems. Problem is, I haven't discovered them yet - at least not in passive speakers. Like Thorsten, I've heard CAV and can't decide if I dislike the sound or the appearance more. So far I've been very happy buying up fairly cheap (under 3000rmb) active speakers and heavily modding them. The ones I've been playing with most recently are from www.fayou.com Your budget looks to be much much bigger than mine so I can only guess you're still on a Western-sized salary...
ksporry,
That's my hope as well for my OB build - "rubbish" might be too strong a word though, perhaps "quality challenged"
alas, nothing seems to be worth taking a chance on... I may just have to order the parts from the US... Anyway, Do you know where all the shops that used to be near the Suzhou Creek (not far from the People's Square) relocated to? I have not been there in awhile, the mall as since been closed down, there were some decent shops there... One shop had some decent 2nd hand gears that I particularly like, love to see what he has in stock these days.Cheers,
Jaz
Chinese Speaker brands
I've been here in China for several years now. But anyway some of the Chinese stuff that's not copied is good. I heard these and they were sweet. But pretty expensive. I went to the Hi-Fi Show in Guangzhou last year and there was some good stuff there. Take a look at these. »ÝÍþF2.2F-ÌÔ±¦Íø They are sold under HiVi here and Swan for export. I would avoid the CAV looks are very good but they don't sound that good IMHO. They do a lot of marking and sales and that is why they are expensive.
If your into the DIY thing Guangzhou is great for kits and components and stuff including some speaker kits.
By the way if you are looking at monitors. I heard the Audio Space monitors at that show and really liked them. They look like Rodgers knock-offs. Here they are http://www.audiospace-hifi.com/detail.asp?catid=2273&subcatid=0&pdtid=476824&private=
I've been here in China for several years now. But anyway some of the Chinese stuff that's not copied is good. I heard these and they were sweet. But pretty expensive. I went to the Hi-Fi Show in Guangzhou last year and there was some good stuff there. Take a look at these. »ÝÍþF2.2F-ÌÔ±¦Íø They are sold under HiVi here and Swan for export. I would avoid the CAV looks are very good but they don't sound that good IMHO. They do a lot of marking and sales and that is why they are expensive.
If your into the DIY thing Guangzhou is great for kits and components and stuff including some speaker kits.
By the way if you are looking at monitors. I heard the Audio Space monitors at that show and really liked them. They look like Rodgers knock-offs. Here they are http://www.audiospace-hifi.com/detail.asp?catid=2273&subcatid=0&pdtid=476824&private=
Jazbo8,
I never gotteh chance to see the one near suzhou creek. I assume you mean the one on the corner of qufu lu? I believe these guys now moved to Zhejiang Lu, just off Nanjing Dong Lu. no knock offs there. I bought my R5.5mk2 there. These guys take their hifi seriously. When I asked about MingDa, one of the guys referred me to zhujiang road, which is not a road but a website as I found out! That made me laugh, as apparently he considers MingDa as commercial stuff, not worthy of his attention.
I haven't seen any places with 2nd hand gear, and honestly, here in China I'd be careful with that stuff. Having seen how things are being handled here, anything 2nd hand is most likely to be abused, unless you buy it directly form the original owner, who may have cared for his stuff.
Nanchangbob, I haven't heard the HiVi ones. I read one review of them and they seem to need a lot of breaking in. What I haven't been able to find, is reviews on the Opera Consonance speakers, which are supposed to be pretty sensitive. I do agree on CAV though, it talks the talk, but it doesn't walk the walk.
If you have some links for some good DIY kits, I'll gladly hear of them!
I never gotteh chance to see the one near suzhou creek. I assume you mean the one on the corner of qufu lu? I believe these guys now moved to Zhejiang Lu, just off Nanjing Dong Lu. no knock offs there. I bought my R5.5mk2 there. These guys take their hifi seriously. When I asked about MingDa, one of the guys referred me to zhujiang road, which is not a road but a website as I found out! That made me laugh, as apparently he considers MingDa as commercial stuff, not worthy of his attention.
I haven't seen any places with 2nd hand gear, and honestly, here in China I'd be careful with that stuff. Having seen how things are being handled here, anything 2nd hand is most likely to be abused, unless you buy it directly form the original owner, who may have cared for his stuff.
Nanchangbob, I haven't heard the HiVi ones. I read one review of them and they seem to need a lot of breaking in. What I haven't been able to find, is reviews on the Opera Consonance speakers, which are supposed to be pretty sensitive. I do agree on CAV though, it talks the talk, but it doesn't walk the walk.
If you have some links for some good DIY kits, I'll gladly hear of them!
What kind of speakers are you looking for? To be used with Single-ended amps or normal efficiency? I will be going to Guangzhou in a couple of weeks and I will pick-up a some cards. Here is a Guangzhou store that has some interesting things.
ÒôÏäDIYæäÕ¾- - ÌÔ±¦Íø
ÒôÏäDIYæäÕ¾- - ÌÔ±¦Íø
Currently the amp I use (the R5.5) is parallel Single Ended, and I suspect any mono blocks, it being Opera's R9.9's or MingDa's MC845-C (still not sure which one to pick), will be SE as well, so would need an efficiency to match.
Just wanted to adda note: The R5.5 has absolutely no problems whatsoever in driving my B&W CDM 7NTs.
The sound is rather stunning. Open and airy. seriously good. So any speakers, DIY or commercial, would have to be better than my current speakers (obviously)
Just wanted to adda note: The R5.5 has absolutely no problems whatsoever in driving my B&W CDM 7NTs.
The sound is rather stunning. Open and airy. seriously good. So any speakers, DIY or commercial, would have to be better than my current speakers (obviously)
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I suppose the reason for doing the mods is a bit like the reason mountaineers climb mountains - because I can. I've given up on passive speakers (passive XOs are too much of a compromise in my book) and I've not yet found one active speaker where I've liked the sound of the electronics, so I can't help but tinker.
Have a look at my blog for more details - I started off playing with Fayou B2s then XPEs, I've done 3Nod and HiVi. Most recently back to the higher end Fayou's which are branded 'ArtMaster' - you can find a description here . 'Heavy' modding for me includes things like rewiring the grounding, swapping out opamps where necessary and adding filters and snubbers to clean up the sound. I've not done anything with the acoustic properties as I'm still a novice when it comes to speakers.
Hi,
Try these:
Opera M15 Horn Speakers [English]
SoundStage! Equipment Review - Opera Audio Consonance M12 Barque Loudspeakers (8/2006)
Hmmm. How do you understand the meaning "has problems driving"?
If you want to know exactly what I mean when I say that R5.5 has problems driving lower efficiency speakers find one of the following CD's on (can all be found on that site that use some kind of pack animal and is Very CD):
PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION - Minnesota Orchestra directed by Eiji Oue RR-79
Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3 ("Organ Symphony") - Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal with Peter Hurford, Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Manger / Various - Musik von einem anderen stern on this one especially track 14.
Larry Carlton with special guest Robben Ford "Live in Tokyo"
You can also try Hugh Masekela "Stimela".
Take any of these and turn it up to realistic concert levels. Actually, you will find you cannot and orchestral crescendi are heavily distorted on the classical tracks as the Amp is hopelessly overloaded, the drums in Stimela overload the Amp in ways that are distinctly unpretty and the wholec opening track on the RobbenFord/Larry Carlton CD instantly turns to much as each of the instruments overload the amp.
When not challenged by anything with wide dynamic range things will be fine. My own system handles 80% or more of my listening fine, but it cannot handle being played at realistic loudness levels with music that is not heavily compressed.
Ciao T
Try these:
Opera M15 Horn Speakers [English]
SoundStage! Equipment Review - Opera Audio Consonance M12 Barque Loudspeakers (8/2006)
Hmmm. How do you understand the meaning "has problems driving"?
If you want to know exactly what I mean when I say that R5.5 has problems driving lower efficiency speakers find one of the following CD's on (can all be found on that site that use some kind of pack animal and is Very CD):
PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION - Minnesota Orchestra directed by Eiji Oue RR-79
Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3 ("Organ Symphony") - Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal with Peter Hurford, Conducted by Charles Dutoit
Manger / Various - Musik von einem anderen stern on this one especially track 14.
Larry Carlton with special guest Robben Ford "Live in Tokyo"
You can also try Hugh Masekela "Stimela".
Take any of these and turn it up to realistic concert levels. Actually, you will find you cannot and orchestral crescendi are heavily distorted on the classical tracks as the Amp is hopelessly overloaded, the drums in Stimela overload the Amp in ways that are distinctly unpretty and the wholec opening track on the RobbenFord/Larry Carlton CD instantly turns to much as each of the instruments overload the amp.
When not challenged by anything with wide dynamic range things will be fine. My own system handles 80% or more of my listening fine, but it cannot handle being played at realistic loudness levels with music that is not heavily compressed.
Ciao T
In my case, I have the amp volume at 9 o'clock, and sitting down the hall in my study I still wonder if its too loud or not. I don't hear evidence of overdriving the amp. In fact, when playing othello on sacd I can hear so many details I never heard before! Playing sinatra supernatural, same story. I can hear each string of the bass. Symbals sound as if I'm there myself. And that while the amp is new and still needs breaking in. Both cds are sacds, played on a Sony scd555es.
That's what I meant with not having problems. If I crank up the volume, not only will I rupture my eardrums, but also those of the neighbours...
Of course, what you say may still be true, but I guess your volume stings may be significantly higher than mine.
That's what I meant with not having problems. If I crank up the volume, not only will I rupture my eardrums, but also those of the neighbours...
Of course, what you say may still be true, but I guess your volume stings may be significantly higher than mine.
Hi,
Knowing the Amp's design, this about as high as you can turn up the volume before clipping with a normal CD-Player as source.
Remember, in 99.9% of all hifi systems the position of the volume control has no direct relation as to "how many % output" is used.
I am not disputing this, this is what a good tube amp brings to the table.
My "Volume Setting" on my system varies a lot between watching movies at night (don't wake the baby up) and playing "Music FOr Pleasure" during the day when the neighbours are out (actually I only have people above and below) or don't mind.
My co-reference is live concerts (classical/acoustic jazz) which tend to have 85 - 90dB average SPL for high levels and around 15-20dB crest factor (peak to average ratio), so between 105-110dB SPL are needed to reproduce these cleanly.
Many modern recordings (or reissues) are brutally compressed, they are meant to sound JBL (Just Brutally Loud) with the crest factor often comressed down to 6dB or so. Such a recording played at the same average SPL will only need peaks 6dB higher, so 91-96dB maximum SPL will do.
I listen to a lot of truely uncompressed or minimally compressed stuff, so even fairly sedate music (not Spinal Tap at Mach 2 turned up to 11) means I need clean 110dB peaks from my own system, to listen at around 85dB average SPL's where I sit with such stuff...
With a 90dB/W/m Speaker this means I need 100W for 110dB/1m, but due to greater distances etc. as much as 200...400W is advisable.
Now feedback less Tube Amps overload quite cleanly, so as much as 6dB overload can go un-noticed (hence the "Tube Watts are bigger than Transistor Watts" urban myth).
So with a 90dB Speaker you can probably get away with a nice 70...100W Tube Amp, mine is a little less than halve that and I regulary bump into the limits.
Ciao T
Knowing the Amp's design, this about as high as you can turn up the volume before clipping with a normal CD-Player as source.
Remember, in 99.9% of all hifi systems the position of the volume control has no direct relation as to "how many % output" is used.
I am not disputing this, this is what a good tube amp brings to the table.
My "Volume Setting" on my system varies a lot between watching movies at night (don't wake the baby up) and playing "Music FOr Pleasure" during the day when the neighbours are out (actually I only have people above and below) or don't mind.
My co-reference is live concerts (classical/acoustic jazz) which tend to have 85 - 90dB average SPL for high levels and around 15-20dB crest factor (peak to average ratio), so between 105-110dB SPL are needed to reproduce these cleanly.
Many modern recordings (or reissues) are brutally compressed, they are meant to sound JBL (Just Brutally Loud) with the crest factor often comressed down to 6dB or so. Such a recording played at the same average SPL will only need peaks 6dB higher, so 91-96dB maximum SPL will do.
I listen to a lot of truely uncompressed or minimally compressed stuff, so even fairly sedate music (not Spinal Tap at Mach 2 turned up to 11) means I need clean 110dB peaks from my own system, to listen at around 85dB average SPL's where I sit with such stuff...
With a 90dB/W/m Speaker this means I need 100W for 110dB/1m, but due to greater distances etc. as much as 200...400W is advisable.
Now feedback less Tube Amps overload quite cleanly, so as much as 6dB overload can go un-noticed (hence the "Tube Watts are bigger than Transistor Watts" urban myth).
So with a 90dB Speaker you can probably get away with a nice 70...100W Tube Amp, mine is a little less than halve that and I regulary bump into the limits.
Ciao T
A proud owner of Cav md-ex3g here!
Having them for about 4 years, I am really happy with their clear, analytical and full range sound!
They are gorgeous as physical presence in the house, too! They having the best possible WAV factor!
And all these at very low price!
My best buy ever!
Here is a review:
Having them for about 4 years, I am really happy with their clear, analytical and full range sound!
They are gorgeous as physical presence in the house, too! They having the best possible WAV factor!
And all these at very low price!
My best buy ever!
Here is a review:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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