Hi,
I'm in the proces of buying a Philips AD9710 fullrange driver.
I have found some information on this driver at:
http://www.sitecenter.dk/otc/nss-folder/philipsfullrange/
http://www.dhtrob.com
AD 9710 parameters:
Diameter: 8.5", 20.3 cm
Efficiency: 97 dB SPL @1m, 2.83v, 8R
Re: 5.2R
Z: 7R
Fs: 46 Hz
Qms: 2.28
Qts: .63
Qts: .49
Vas: 3.55 ft^3, 100 l
Pe: 15W
Xmax: +- .7mm
My goals are, at least for now:
1 - Fulrange: about 50 Hz to 10-15 kHz
2 - Perhaps later a tweeter (after hearing the first trial)
3 - Not to big a box (about 100 liter inside)
The possibilities as far as I see and after using Boxplot etc:
A - Closed box: Not enough bass respons (System compliance .707 => 140 liter)
B - Ported 1: Standard alignment results in a 190 liter enclosure!
(system compliance .527)
C - Ported 2: put it at 100 liter and a resonance frequency of
aprox. 40 Hz. Seems ok, but as far I understand the transient response suffers a lot.
D - Open baffle: Result in a large room-devider (WAF!)
E - TQWP / TML Seems to be very promising: But..............
I do not know how to make a educated guess for a design. I've
been to t-linespeaker.org (great site!) and the only not emperical stuff are the models of Martin King
(also great stuff, difficult though).
But the demo version of the Mathcad 8 won't properly
work on my computer.
Furthermore applying the essence of his Mass Loaded TQWP FE164 design, will result in this case in a very
large box, because of the needed end surface.
So I need some help, what to do with this driver?
Luuk Boessenkool - NL
I'm in the proces of buying a Philips AD9710 fullrange driver.
I have found some information on this driver at:
http://www.sitecenter.dk/otc/nss-folder/philipsfullrange/
http://www.dhtrob.com
AD 9710 parameters:
Diameter: 8.5", 20.3 cm
Efficiency: 97 dB SPL @1m, 2.83v, 8R
Re: 5.2R
Z: 7R
Fs: 46 Hz
Qms: 2.28
Qts: .63
Qts: .49
Vas: 3.55 ft^3, 100 l
Pe: 15W
Xmax: +- .7mm
My goals are, at least for now:
1 - Fulrange: about 50 Hz to 10-15 kHz
2 - Perhaps later a tweeter (after hearing the first trial)
3 - Not to big a box (about 100 liter inside)
The possibilities as far as I see and after using Boxplot etc:
A - Closed box: Not enough bass respons (System compliance .707 => 140 liter)
B - Ported 1: Standard alignment results in a 190 liter enclosure!
(system compliance .527)
C - Ported 2: put it at 100 liter and a resonance frequency of
aprox. 40 Hz. Seems ok, but as far I understand the transient response suffers a lot.
D - Open baffle: Result in a large room-devider (WAF!)
E - TQWP / TML Seems to be very promising: But..............
I do not know how to make a educated guess for a design. I've
been to t-linespeaker.org (great site!) and the only not emperical stuff are the models of Martin King
(also great stuff, difficult though).
But the demo version of the Mathcad 8 won't properly
work on my computer.
Furthermore applying the essence of his Mass Loaded TQWP FE164 design, will result in this case in a very
large box, because of the needed end surface.
So I need some help, what to do with this driver?
Luuk Boessenkool - NL
Philips AD9710, fullrange
For those, who not know:
Philips AD9710 is a real classic woofer.
Has been around for a long long time!!!
Gives a lot of sound pressure out: 97dB SPL (at 1 kHz I would think)
This driver is often used by Musicians.
A very interesting Loudspeaker Element
And the cost is very low, at least in comparision
For those, who not know:
Philips AD9710 is a real classic woofer.
Has been around for a long long time!!!
Gives a lot of sound pressure out: 97dB SPL (at 1 kHz I would think)
This driver is often used by Musicians.
A very interesting Loudspeaker Element
And the cost is very low, at least in comparision
OA Carlsson used 9710 from 1953
And into the 70ies.
First in this "kol-box", kol=carbon
History of OA Carlsson Speakers - kolboxen
OA (Carlsson) build the most sold Loudspeaker EVER in Sweden!
in the 1960ies
I know, for my brother had them. You could see those boxes in
nearly all Swedish homes. Standing in the corners.
My brother had this white Type II :
SONAB OA5 Type II
SONAB OA5 - it had 9710, 8 ohm variant, and 4 diskants, tweeters, radiating at all 4 sides
SONAB OA5
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Imaging this Fullrange Driver was around in the Beginning of 1950ies.
50 years later, a guy is going to use it in a speaker system.
How many will use Windows XP, 50 years from now?????????????
Or listen to Britney Spear Music???
/halojoy - will never know the answer, unless he will become very old
And into the 70ies.
First in this "kol-box", kol=carbon
History of OA Carlsson Speakers - kolboxen
OA (Carlsson) build the most sold Loudspeaker EVER in Sweden!
in the 1960ies
I know, for my brother had them. You could see those boxes in
nearly all Swedish homes. Standing in the corners.
My brother had this white Type II :
SONAB OA5 Type II
SONAB OA5 - it had 9710, 8 ohm variant, and 4 diskants, tweeters, radiating at all 4 sides
SONAB OA5
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Imaging this Fullrange Driver was around in the Beginning of 1950ies.
50 years later, a guy is going to use it in a speaker system.
How many will use Windows XP, 50 years from now?????????????
Or listen to Britney Spear Music???
/halojoy - will never know the answer, unless he will become very old
9710
Try to find the Philips publication: "luidsprekerbehuizingen voor zelfbouw" (loudspeaker-enclosures for diy).
It has several designs for the 9710.
You can also stick the 9710 on an open baffle: not bad at all.
Jaap
Try to find the Philips publication: "luidsprekerbehuizingen voor zelfbouw" (loudspeaker-enclosures for diy).
It has several designs for the 9710.
You can also stick the 9710 on an open baffle: not bad at all.
Jaap
Re: 9710
Philips is A Netherland company
from the beginning
Now, it is more multi-national.
Am I right, Jaap?
halojoy - is not always right
Jaap should know rather good,Jaap said:
Philips is A Netherland company
from the beginning
Now, it is more multi-national.
Am I right, Jaap?
halojoy - is not always right
Re: Re: 9710
I would call it a Dutch multinational 🙂
halojoy said:
Jaap should know rather good,
Philips is A Netherland company
from the beginning
Now, it is more multi-national.
Am I right, Jaap?
halojoy - is not always right
I would call it a Dutch multinational 🙂
Can I see pictures?
I think I just picked up one of these units for my guitar combo amp, and I've seen this in systems from the 70s onwards. I suspect the ones we get around here have ceramic magnets, with hexagonal sheet metal chassis. Not the round chassis as shown in some links.
But is a full range driver with a whizzer cone, very nice sound for instruments. I have also seen these used with some mid-fi systems in the early 70s. 93-94 dB sounds about right, these guys can play LOUD!
Haven't used them in a while, though might again, they're really cheap, play well and are a good FR option.
One more question. All applications I've seen recommend that the driver be mounted from the rear of the baffle, as opposed to the front. Any particular reason why? There is a very thick rubber washer for this purpose. I do not like to have removable rear panels. Unless it's open baffle. I find the speaker in open baffle such as in my small combo cube, have decent lows, enough for bass guitar maybe so I may consider similar WM configuration for monitoring purposes.
I think I just picked up one of these units for my guitar combo amp, and I've seen this in systems from the 70s onwards. I suspect the ones we get around here have ceramic magnets, with hexagonal sheet metal chassis. Not the round chassis as shown in some links.
But is a full range driver with a whizzer cone, very nice sound for instruments. I have also seen these used with some mid-fi systems in the early 70s. 93-94 dB sounds about right, these guys can play LOUD!
Haven't used them in a while, though might again, they're really cheap, play well and are a good FR option.
One more question. All applications I've seen recommend that the driver be mounted from the rear of the baffle, as opposed to the front. Any particular reason why? There is a very thick rubber washer for this purpose. I do not like to have removable rear panels. Unless it's open baffle. I find the speaker in open baffle such as in my small combo cube, have decent lows, enough for bass guitar maybe so I may consider similar WM configuration for monitoring purposes.
Hi,
The Philips AD9710-M (M = extra mid cone or dual cone) is a real classic. It is one of the best speakers Philips has ever made. But I have never seen these with ferrite magnets. All have Alnico magnets.
One of my first big projects was a Karlson resonator (NOT Carlsson!) with a AD9710-M. This Karlson box was build according to the plan in the book “Luidsprekers”. A more than 30-year-old book from “De Muiderkring”, publisher of a Dutch radio DIY magazine “Radio Bulletin”.
This was a really good sounding box that could produce powerful deep bas with a moderate 15W amp. But in the mids and highs it produced a fair amount (but not unpleasant) coloration. Later I build several other ones for small PA. But nowadays it is not worth the effort to build such a complex box IMHO.
Here is the plan of the Karlsons I build with de AD9710-M those days (430 kb):
http://home.student.utwente.nl/e.j.j.ulfman/images/Plans/new12in.gif
It is from the Karlson Homepage
If you Google on karlson+loudspeaker, there is a load of information about this remarkable design.
But for music instrument use I would suggest to mount the AD9710-M on an (folded) open baffle nowadays. But if you build a Karlson resonator according to the plan given, you will not be disappointed if you put an AD9710-M in it.
Cheers 😉
The Philips AD9710-M (M = extra mid cone or dual cone) is a real classic. It is one of the best speakers Philips has ever made. But I have never seen these with ferrite magnets. All have Alnico magnets.
One of my first big projects was a Karlson resonator (NOT Carlsson!) with a AD9710-M. This Karlson box was build according to the plan in the book “Luidsprekers”. A more than 30-year-old book from “De Muiderkring”, publisher of a Dutch radio DIY magazine “Radio Bulletin”.
This was a really good sounding box that could produce powerful deep bas with a moderate 15W amp. But in the mids and highs it produced a fair amount (but not unpleasant) coloration. Later I build several other ones for small PA. But nowadays it is not worth the effort to build such a complex box IMHO.
Here is the plan of the Karlsons I build with de AD9710-M those days (430 kb):
http://home.student.utwente.nl/e.j.j.ulfman/images/Plans/new12in.gif
It is from the Karlson Homepage
If you Google on karlson+loudspeaker, there is a load of information about this remarkable design.
But for music instrument use I would suggest to mount the AD9710-M on an (folded) open baffle nowadays. But if you build a Karlson resonator according to the plan given, you will not be disappointed if you put an AD9710-M in it.
Cheers 😉
philips
I am glad to see that you all talk about the Philips company.
Most yankees are constantly talking about a certain Phillips company I have never heard of 😉
Jaap,
who is of course of Dutch origin and thinks that certain Philips product were underestimated in the past, and who tells you that the recent Philips DVD 963SA is a killer machine for the price they ask for it.
I am glad to see that you all talk about the Philips company.
Most yankees are constantly talking about a certain Phillips company I have never heard of 😉
Jaap,
who is of course of Dutch origin and thinks that certain Philips product were underestimated in the past, and who tells you that the recent Philips DVD 963SA is a killer machine for the price they ask for it.
Koopt Nederlandsche waar !
Hi Jaap, wait till you buy a TV set of the Philips brand or a coffeemachine.
For example I bought an expensive coffeemachine some time ago and found it cracked right in the middle from top to bottom when I came home. It had served us for a week. Not to speak about Philips car-radios.
Although I know some very talented Philips engineers that I have high esteem for I think the quality of Philips stuff could be better... ( like they say in their slogan ! ). To be honest it is a while ago I bought my last Philips product apart from their fantastic Senseo Crema. Don't laugh at me, a good coffee machine is essential for DIY ing audio. Makes one more relaxed.
Philips as a company has made impressive great inventions but after the first product the second generation is lighter, cheaper and quality lower. To me it is not a surprise the japanese companies do it better in the audiomarket.
A few weeks ago I spoke a Philips shaver engineer and he did his best to convince me of the high quality of the used materials in Philips shavers. I wouldn't know cause I use blades 😀
Older Philips cdplayers are still prefered by me over modern machines. Their CDM mechanisms were/are superb and it is a shame they are not produced anymore.
regards,
Jean-Paul (who is dutch of course as well and would love to buy gear from a national brand if it was really good 😉 )
Hi Jaap, wait till you buy a TV set of the Philips brand or a coffeemachine.
For example I bought an expensive coffeemachine some time ago and found it cracked right in the middle from top to bottom when I came home. It had served us for a week. Not to speak about Philips car-radios.
Although I know some very talented Philips engineers that I have high esteem for I think the quality of Philips stuff could be better... ( like they say in their slogan ! ). To be honest it is a while ago I bought my last Philips product apart from their fantastic Senseo Crema. Don't laugh at me, a good coffee machine is essential for DIY ing audio. Makes one more relaxed.
Philips as a company has made impressive great inventions but after the first product the second generation is lighter, cheaper and quality lower. To me it is not a surprise the japanese companies do it better in the audiomarket.
A few weeks ago I spoke a Philips shaver engineer and he did his best to convince me of the high quality of the used materials in Philips shavers. I wouldn't know cause I use blades 😀
Older Philips cdplayers are still prefered by me over modern machines. Their CDM mechanisms were/are superb and it is a shame they are not produced anymore.
regards,
Jean-Paul (who is dutch of course as well and would love to buy gear from a national brand if it was really good 😉 )
hi jean-paul
My experience with some Philips products is the same as yours.
Personally I think their R & D department has some of the brightest heads in the electronics business worldwide.
But I think their financial department is developing the enduser products, using a tool that is called "Rotstift" in German !
Regarding the AD9710:
Is the VAS of this small driver really that large (100 liters) or could this be an error ?
Maybe a small open baffle + additional woofer would be a good application for this driver (also keeping the small xmax in mind).
Regards
Charles
My experience with some Philips products is the same as yours.
Personally I think their R & D department has some of the brightest heads in the electronics business worldwide.
But I think their financial department is developing the enduser products, using a tool that is called "Rotstift" in German !
Regarding the AD9710:
Is the VAS of this small driver really that large (100 liters) or could this be an error ?
Maybe a small open baffle + additional woofer would be a good application for this driver (also keeping the small xmax in mind).
Regards
Charles
philips stuff
Jean-Paul for the most part you are right I suppose, at least for the coffee part.
It could be that Philips is now on a different road, at least it seems so with their new dvd-963sa player. It has stunning video capabilities but it is worth its money as an stand alone audio player.
I bought one last week and the first minutes right from the box it sounded already very promising. It was certainly in the same class as my well burned in scd 555es player.
It uses the ad1955 dac and opamps in the analog stage. It has a switching power supply, but a good one I heard.
I myself lack the knowledge but I hope that one of the digi's on this board is going to study this machine for tweaking and gives us a recipe.
hoi,
Jaap,
who discovered that the last commercial loudspeakers from Philips (top model FB860) is greatly overlooked by the audiophile masses. Reason for this is the prejudice that Philips never made quality audio gear. Any dutch guy who wants to sell a FB860 to me is welcome. I am prepared to exchange for a Philips coffee machine
Jean-Paul for the most part you are right I suppose, at least for the coffee part.
It could be that Philips is now on a different road, at least it seems so with their new dvd-963sa player. It has stunning video capabilities but it is worth its money as an stand alone audio player.
I bought one last week and the first minutes right from the box it sounded already very promising. It was certainly in the same class as my well burned in scd 555es player.
It uses the ad1955 dac and opamps in the analog stage. It has a switching power supply, but a good one I heard.
I myself lack the knowledge but I hope that one of the digi's on this board is going to study this machine for tweaking and gives us a recipe.
hoi,
Jaap,
who discovered that the last commercial loudspeakers from Philips (top model FB860) is greatly overlooked by the audiophile masses. Reason for this is the prejudice that Philips never made quality audio gear. Any dutch guy who wants to sell a FB860 to me is welcome. I am prepared to exchange for a Philips coffee machine
Thanks so far
First of all I would like to thank anyone for the response.
1 - Jaap,
You mention the Philips publication: "luidsprekerbehuizingen voor zelfbouw" (loudspeaker-enclosures for diy). Is this the small A5 sized, orange colored booklet? If so, then I will I have this somewhere laying around.
2 - Phase_accurate & Jaap,
Perhaps a trial with an open baffle is a worthwile experiment. After that, I can always add a extra woofer. Something like the BassZilka
3 - Anyone
Can anyone hint me a direction, if this unit is any good in a tml, tqwp etc?
Luuk
First of all I would like to thank anyone for the response.
1 - Jaap,
You mention the Philips publication: "luidsprekerbehuizingen voor zelfbouw" (loudspeaker-enclosures for diy). Is this the small A5 sized, orange colored booklet? If so, then I will I have this somewhere laying around.
2 - Phase_accurate & Jaap,
Perhaps a trial with an open baffle is a worthwile experiment. After that, I can always add a extra woofer. Something like the BassZilka
3 - Anyone
Can anyone hint me a direction, if this unit is any good in a tml, tqwp etc?
Luuk
boessenkool (staphorst ?),
My philips booklet (yes A5) is blue but i know there were yellow ones (other year almost the same text).
9710 is very good in TQWP, see for instance http://home.planet.nl/~dht_rob/
(dutch section), he can tell you more.
A good combination is the 9710 with the famous Philips Bombardon Woofer (AD5201 S77) in a closed box: see the philips booklet, number A13.
If you press me I could sell you 2 bombardons.
regards,
Jaap
My philips booklet (yes A5) is blue but i know there were yellow ones (other year almost the same text).
9710 is very good in TQWP, see for instance http://home.planet.nl/~dht_rob/
(dutch section), he can tell you more.
A good combination is the 9710 with the famous Philips Bombardon Woofer (AD5201 S77) in a closed box: see the philips booklet, number A13.
If you press me I could sell you 2 bombardons.
regards,
Jaap
reply to Jaap
Jaap,
Can't find my Philips booklet. So I will have to search another one.
I have looked into the site of Rob. As a matter of fact I'm buying the units from Rob. He's living close by, so I will go there myself.
I'm very tempted by the Bombardons. If it's okay with you, I would like to use first the AD9710 alone and get back to you later about this.
As it so happened a couple of weeks ago, I bought an old issue of Radio Bulletin (1965) and it featured the ad9710 and the Bombardon. But the desing looked a bit weird. Also the article was continued in the next issue.............. alas.
I have downloaded the free demo of Mathcad an the tml worksheets from the site of Marting King's site.
(http://www.quarter-wave.com/)
This looks like a very good way, to make an educated guess. (Because I'v built a tml before and I couldn't solve the dip and the spl at about 180 Hz). But the demo-version wont work on my laptop. I've got some possible solutions from Martin King personally. (Martin, thanks again.)
Luuk Boessenkool
(roots in Rouveen and Dedemsvaart)
Jaap,
Can't find my Philips booklet. So I will have to search another one.
I have looked into the site of Rob. As a matter of fact I'm buying the units from Rob. He's living close by, so I will go there myself.
I'm very tempted by the Bombardons. If it's okay with you, I would like to use first the AD9710 alone and get back to you later about this.
As it so happened a couple of weeks ago, I bought an old issue of Radio Bulletin (1965) and it featured the ad9710 and the Bombardon. But the desing looked a bit weird. Also the article was continued in the next issue.............. alas.
I have downloaded the free demo of Mathcad an the tml worksheets from the site of Marting King's site.
(http://www.quarter-wave.com/)
This looks like a very good way, to make an educated guess. (Because I'v built a tml before and I couldn't solve the dip and the spl at about 180 Hz). But the demo-version wont work on my laptop. I've got some possible solutions from Martin King personally. (Martin, thanks again.)
Luuk Boessenkool
(roots in Rouveen and Dedemsvaart)
Hello!
Jaap:
Could you please give som information on the box with AD5201 and 9710?
I have these units myself and have not decided what to do with them yet.
I am rather fond of the 9710 myself, it is amazing that such old units still are existing after so many years.
The 9710 was used in the Swedish Carlsson speakers in the fifties, sixties and into the seventies.
Best regards
Martin
Jaap:
Could you please give som information on the box with AD5201 and 9710?
I have these units myself and have not decided what to do with them yet.
I am rather fond of the 9710 myself, it is amazing that such old units still are existing after so many years.
The 9710 was used in the Swedish Carlsson speakers in the fifties, sixties and into the seventies.
Best regards
Martin
9710-bombardon combination
For everyone who is interested there is the original building plan with crossover when you follow this link;
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/willemj/dutch/bombardon.htm
It is in dutch only,but if you need help i can translate it for you.
Greetings Mark
For everyone who is interested there is the original building plan with crossover when you follow this link;
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/willemj/dutch/bombardon.htm
It is in dutch only,but if you need help i can translate it for you.
Greetings Mark
Stillusing it
I was happy finding this subject here.
I am still using the 9710M as my main speaker system.
Once mounted in a huge bas reflex box, 1968, I later build the 40l design from the booklet mentioned above.
Added 2 dome tweeters so the 9710 is doing midrange only, for which task it is suited best of all.
Problem is, the edges are deteriorating, and I am looking for a replacement.
Anyone?
Nice in-depth article on 9710 and more famous speakers:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/philips9710.htm
I was happy finding this subject here.
I am still using the 9710M as my main speaker system.
Once mounted in a huge bas reflex box, 1968, I later build the 40l design from the booklet mentioned above.
Added 2 dome tweeters so the 9710 is doing midrange only, for which task it is suited best of all.
Problem is, the edges are deteriorating, and I am looking for a replacement.
Anyone?
Nice in-depth article on 9710 and more famous speakers:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/philips9710.htm
Since this thread has been reactivated, I take my chance and hope that some of the dutch here can maybe answer my question I asked in the loudspeaker forum regarding 9710 and bombardon.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105901
Sorry if this counts as double post.
Thanks a lot.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105901
Sorry if this counts as double post.
Thanks a lot.
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