well, I was only teasing - I know not everyone has the same budget
could you clarify that?
While we all may have our own preference for particular driver/amp combination, it's been my own experience with the Mark Audio drivers I've yet heard that they are more tolerant of amplifier "signatures" and output impedance characteristics than an equivalent dimensioned Fostex FExx6 series, particularly if the latter are in a less than optimal enclosure.
For example, while a 20WPC Kingrex Tripath chip amp or mid 80's Sony 30W receiver have more than enough power for my listening needs for either the dual EL70 microtowers, FE127E or FE167E, I prefer the sonics of a 3-8 W tube amp - all of which in my collection run out of headroom long before any of the drivers exceed theirs.
"note that when used singularly per enclosure, the Mark Audio drivers provide a lower impedance load than Fostex, which in combination with the lower sensitivity, might cause some amplifiers to run warm - either of the named amps probably have adequate power, particularly if you're not planning on all night dance parties - but keep the ventilation in mind"
It was you who said it.
It was you who said it.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that means hard to power, just don't overlook the thermal consideration that some amplifiers might encounter if running near their power dissipation limits, and particularly if enclosed in confined space.
For example, a 20 Watt Class A Nelson Pass design would not be something you'd want to install in a modified Clairtone console.
There is, in the same document, a single driver version called a halfTower. Chris was the one who commented on the other thread, the CHR & EL70 are not all that hard to drive and were tailored to get the most out of the typical 2 channel or home theatre receiver.
Plans near the end under ML-TLs http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-markaudio.html
Chris was referring to the often seen, minimum 6 ohms on HT receivers. In all but the cheapest ones, this is more a lawyer thing than a practical thing. You will have no problem with your Harman Kardon HK 3490. It is designed to drive 2 pair of 8 ohm speakers in parallel so will have no issues with a pair of 4 ohm speakers. One would avoid using a 2nd set of speakers at the same time.
dave
Yes, i can see the Half-Tower on page 6. But i've spoken to this guy from minhembio.com and he said it looked like an early version of The Metronome. I'm not sure what to build, but it seems like it will be between EL70 och CHR70 drivers unless i can get some more money.
My amp is well ventilated. It stands freely ontop of a drawer. And yes, it should be able to power a single pair of speakers rated to 4ohm.
My amp is well ventilated. It stands freely ontop of a drawer. And yes, it should be able to power a single pair of speakers rated to 4ohm.
You would prob. be better off building an open baffle loudspeaker AND a powered sub-woofer.
Open Baffles are pretty easy to build.. just a properly sized board really with a hole for the driver (..and something to keep it upright).
The sub is not *as* easy, but certainly easier than the angles provided by Metronome.
There are other benefits to this configuration as well.
Here is a program for modeling baffle size:
Home of the Edge
..be sure to "check" the Open Baffle feature if you are interested in modeling an open baffle loudspeaker.
Open Baffles are pretty easy to build.. just a properly sized board really with a hole for the driver (..and something to keep it upright).
The sub is not *as* easy, but certainly easier than the angles provided by Metronome.
There are other benefits to this configuration as well.
Here is a program for modeling baffle size:
Home of the Edge
..be sure to "check" the Open Baffle feature if you are interested in modeling an open baffle loudspeaker.
Well, i don't think the angles of The Metronome will be any problem. My father has been a carpenter and he is still skilled.
I'm not sure if the room for which this particular project is intended has been discussed yet in either thread.
The recommendation for an OB / sub combo needs to take this into account - while they can all do some wonderful things, O/B, full dipole, or line arrays are not necessarily suitable to all applications.
Yes, a pair of holes in an appropriately dimensioned flat panel can make for an easy 2 hour project, but getting the system to work in the room is another story.
I don't know if my room will be good for OB.
Minhembio.com - Hemma hos Ala_95 - Mitt rum 1.1
Shows a little bit of how it is.
Minhembio.com - Hemma hos Ala_95 - Mitt rum 1.1
Shows a little bit of how it is.
..any speaker that isn't *too* heavy to carry can be moved for critical listening.
An open baffle can usually be moved easily (because the weight isn't particularly heavy) - generally 3+ feet from the wall behind the speakers. (..and looking at your room this seems feasible.)
..and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you *should* make an open baffle + sub. Rather I think that the solution could work for you better than most others when considering your budget and wanting something fairly simple to build. I might even be wrong on the budget side of things.. shipping and any additional taxing might make even this solution prohibitive.
Well, the building process shouldn't be too difficult. My dad has built many houses and built lots of other things. He is a skilled woodworker.
And the speakers MUST stand where they stand today, can't move them anywhere else really.
And the speakers MUST stand where they stand today, can't move them anywhere else really.
Those Metronomes do look nice.
Don't know how ambitious you and your Dad feel. Used to help me to rough out speakers with cheap thin woods. Make all kinds of mistakes on but just for tests pre-build. Then during, more carefully work away at the actual finished cabinets.
Sounds like that's not an issue but comes in handy sometimes. Especially if you and your Dad get to wondering, want to quick try anything out.
But also I remember that was very very hard to do on my first few (well, more than few)
projects. I really wanted to get them working.
The full range idea in general sounds like a good starter project. Later, as funds and your interest allow, you might even want to try messing with adding prebuilt crossover and a tweeter type stuff.
Using a tiny box for tweeter and 2-way crossover, you wouldn't even have to touch your fullrangers, just connect to the crossover's woofer outputs. Change them back whenever you want, too.
But in any case, to get this project going.
Don't know how ambitious you and your Dad feel. Used to help me to rough out speakers with cheap thin woods. Make all kinds of mistakes on but just for tests pre-build. Then during, more carefully work away at the actual finished cabinets.
Sounds like that's not an issue but comes in handy sometimes. Especially if you and your Dad get to wondering, want to quick try anything out.
But also I remember that was very very hard to do on my first few (well, more than few)
projects. I really wanted to get them working.
The full range idea in general sounds like a good starter project. Later, as funds and your interest allow, you might even want to try messing with adding prebuilt crossover and a tweeter type stuff.
Using a tiny box for tweeter and 2-way crossover, you wouldn't even have to touch your fullrangers, just connect to the crossover's woofer outputs. Change them back whenever you want, too.
But in any case, to get this project going.
Well, i've thought of waiting a little with this project.
If you look at my room, would a pair of Sachiko fit in there?
I thought if i wait and get more money aswell as selling my current speakers and build a pair of Sachiko's. But i am worried of that my room is too small. I can't really place then further than around 1½m from eachother and one of them will stand in a corner. I will sit around 2m from the speakers, not sure really.
What do you think? Would a Sachiko be good? And i've also thougt that if i build a pair of Sachiko's that i will get a tube-amp. A Yaqin or something, around 400$ or so.
If you look at my room, would a pair of Sachiko fit in there?
I thought if i wait and get more money aswell as selling my current speakers and build a pair of Sachiko's. But i am worried of that my room is too small. I can't really place then further than around 1½m from eachother and one of them will stand in a corner. I will sit around 2m from the speakers, not sure really.
What do you think? Would a Sachiko be good? And i've also thougt that if i build a pair of Sachiko's that i will get a tube-amp. A Yaqin or something, around 400$ or so.
Seems like Sachiko will be "too big" for my room so i've looked at the Saburo.
I've been thinking, a pair of Saburo with 126En or 127E drivers. And since they're cheaper and require less material i will be able to get birch-plywood (as long as it wont cost 120$/board).
Will a pair of Saburo's fit better in my room or is it just as bad as the Sachiko? I mean, way smaller drivers and cabinets.
I've been thinking, a pair of Saburo with 126En or 127E drivers. And since they're cheaper and require less material i will be able to get birch-plywood (as long as it wont cost 120$/board).
Will a pair of Saburo's fit better in my room or is it just as bad as the Sachiko? I mean, way smaller drivers and cabinets.
Looking at the pictures you link to, my Saburo / Hiro / Sachiko family are almost certainly going to be too big for the space. They need more room to function properly, and at 15, without much ready-cash, I'd advise you to go with something a little smaller anyway. OK, so perhaps not as impressive when you have your friends / girlfriend / whoever over, but almost certain to sound better, and probably a bit more wallet friendly too.
OK, so if you want something interesting looking that sounds good in that sort of space, I'd be inclined to give the Lotus box a shot. Easier build, smaller, better suited to your space but still has a flavour of the larger cabinets.
OK, so if you want something interesting looking that sounds good in that sort of space, I'd be inclined to give the Lotus box a shot. Easier build, smaller, better suited to your space but still has a flavour of the larger cabinets.
at the easy/small end of the range, take a look at these as well
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/mMarS-1v0-map-231009.pdf
there's also a vented version for the paper coned EL70;
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/mMar-Kel70-1v0-map-231009.pdf
neither will dig as deep in the bass as dual driver microtowers, which I suggested earlier, or any of Scott's BVR or MLTLs for example, but are about as simple a build as you can get for these drivers CHR70, and are almost as surprising as the FF85K microFonkens
Well... The actual size of the speaker is no problem for me, i actually want a floorstanding speaker. I am ready to spend around 450$ on this project (as long as they're better than my current speakers). Just selling my current speakers any my subwoofer gives me around 300$ so there's not so much that i have to add.
But, will the Saburo fit better than Sachiko in my room or is it the same ****?
And, i'd like to be able to run without a subwoofer and i must tell you i am listening to lots of rock/deathmetal. Like Killswitch Engage, In Flames, Meshuggah and also Audioslave, RATM and some hiphop aswell such as Diabolic, Vinnie Paz, JMT and so. Good bass is a must...
But, will the Saburo fit better than Sachiko in my room or is it the same ****?
And, i'd like to be able to run without a subwoofer and i must tell you i am listening to lots of rock/deathmetal. Like Killswitch Engage, In Flames, Meshuggah and also Audioslave, RATM and some hiphop aswell such as Diabolic, Vinnie Paz, JMT and so. Good bass is a must...
See the first line of my last post. 'Looking at the pictures you link to, my Saburo / Hiro / Sachiko family are almost certainly going to be too big for the space.'
Large speakers aren't just a matter of physical cabinet size; they also tend to need more room to work properly in.
Then if that's your bag, unsupported full-range / wide-band drivers are not going to suit your requirements. They do many things well, but heavy rock / metal is not really what they're for. They can sometimes make a reasonable fist of it (depending on the cabinet), but a multiway will generally do better. It's mainly about dynamic headroom in the low frequencies, and doppler higher up. If you wanted to use FR units, then for that material, it's either a big box (which I doubt will work all that well in your room) or bandwidth limiting them and handing over to dedicated woofers low down (below ~500Hz).
Uhm... Okay. I don't ONLY listen to heavy metal and such, i also listen to other things which i can't say now but i can send you a playlist when i get home.
But, are there any full-range speaker plans somewhere that isn't just an ordinary box? I'm interested in horn-speakers and so, possible to build a multi-way horn-speaker?
But, are there any full-range speaker plans somewhere that isn't just an ordinary box? I'm interested in horn-speakers and so, possible to build a multi-way horn-speaker?
I'll say it again: Metronomes
non-standard box, floor standing with small foot print, works in smaller rooms, high WAF (although I assume this doesn't apply in your case.)
- Status
- Not open for further replies.