SkinnyBoy said:
Ah, but MS won't allow this. They use strong-arm tactics to prevent OEMs from installing non-MS operating systems. When Dell talked about shipping some systems with Linux pre-installed, MS threatened to stop selling to them (or at least raise their prices; I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was something nasty). Computer manufacturers can't afford to upset MS, at least not yet.
Still, it is beginning to happen... Wal-mart sells some Microtel PCs with Lindows pre-installed. Caused quite a stir, too.
Check this out...
Win98 Light! (Ever heard of it???)
It's the win98se kernel, with the win95 interface smacked on top. Also most of the microsoft garbage is pulled out (HTML Engine, and other similar junk.) Minimum install is like 50Megs... ...small small small.
You do need a lis. for win95 and Win98... ...but I have both of them anyway.
Screaming fast! Stable as could be, none of the annoying bells and whisles... ...just efficient fast use of my PII266 CPU with 512Mb... ...Boots in like 16 seconds! Shutdown, about 2 seconds! Much faster than my work P4 1.6Ghz laptop running WinXP.
-Dan
Win98 Light! (Ever heard of it???)
It's the win98se kernel, with the win95 interface smacked on top. Also most of the microsoft garbage is pulled out (HTML Engine, and other similar junk.) Minimum install is like 50Megs... ...small small small.
You do need a lis. for win95 and Win98... ...but I have both of them anyway.
Screaming fast! Stable as could be, none of the annoying bells and whisles... ...just efficient fast use of my PII266 CPU with 512Mb... ...Boots in like 16 seconds! Shutdown, about 2 seconds! Much faster than my work P4 1.6Ghz laptop running WinXP.
-Dan
Redhat Linux on my main partition, Win98SE for games and other stuff i can't cover on linux (which ain't much). I'll be trying some newer distros whenever i buy my new 80gb hd, but for the time being it does ok 🙂.
I want to say (and i know i have said it before), that linux has been becoming a suitable alternative for OS for more than "geeks" and people who like to thinker. Granted, it's trickier to understand and has an inherent depth and complexity, but still i could install a Linux partition on my mom's pc, having it booting to KDE and she wouldn't have much trouble using it as she uses windows. I've tried WinXP a few weeks ago, which is an (underneath) very solid OS, but at which cost? Not only the hardware requierements are excessive, but i kept having this feeling that i didn't knew what my computer were doing most of the time (in the sense, for example, that every time you download a patch M$ has an open window to check whatever you have installed in your pc. And they do check). I like Win98SE, yet support for it is dissapearing at a steady rate...
Variety is good. Linux is a great OS in it's own right, and it's COMPLETELY free. This is not only important from a cost point-of-view, but in the sense of "what you see is what you get" because you can literally download the sources for it (and 99% of its applications) and compile it yourself if you were enough paranoid. After you get past unix inherent quirknesses, you can only enjoy it.
I want to say (and i know i have said it before), that linux has been becoming a suitable alternative for OS for more than "geeks" and people who like to thinker. Granted, it's trickier to understand and has an inherent depth and complexity, but still i could install a Linux partition on my mom's pc, having it booting to KDE and she wouldn't have much trouble using it as she uses windows. I've tried WinXP a few weeks ago, which is an (underneath) very solid OS, but at which cost? Not only the hardware requierements are excessive, but i kept having this feeling that i didn't knew what my computer were doing most of the time (in the sense, for example, that every time you download a patch M$ has an open window to check whatever you have installed in your pc. And they do check). I like Win98SE, yet support for it is dissapearing at a steady rate...
Variety is good. Linux is a great OS in it's own right, and it's COMPLETELY free. This is not only important from a cost point-of-view, but in the sense of "what you see is what you get" because you can literally download the sources for it (and 99% of its applications) and compile it yourself if you were enough paranoid. After you get past unix inherent quirknesses, you can only enjoy it.
You don't need to be paranoid to compile everything on your computer from the sources... There are additional advantages: You can tweak the compiler options and thus optimize things to run as fast as possible on your system.
What I like most about my Linux is that I have complete control over everything from bootscripts to driver loading/unloading and network setup. Networking under Linux is so powerful, there are many things you wouldn't even want to try under Windows.
Aren't you interested what M$ OS products send to the outside world via Ethernet or Modem? Under Linux, I know.
A company behaving that aggressive and that unfair to its competitors and not respecting privacy of their customers is definitely out of question for me. I'll boykott them wherever possible.
Tell me what you want to do on your computer and I'll tell you how to do it in Linux. If Linux doesn't have a solution, you have the wrong problem 😉 😉
BTW, "Lindows" is neither free nor has it anything to do with GNU/Linux. It's a new OS aiming to support running applications written for Windows.
What I like most about my Linux is that I have complete control over everything from bootscripts to driver loading/unloading and network setup. Networking under Linux is so powerful, there are many things you wouldn't even want to try under Windows.
Aren't you interested what M$ OS products send to the outside world via Ethernet or Modem? Under Linux, I know.
A company behaving that aggressive and that unfair to its competitors and not respecting privacy of their customers is definitely out of question for me. I'll boykott them wherever possible.
Tell me what you want to do on your computer and I'll tell you how to do it in Linux. If Linux doesn't have a solution, you have the wrong problem 😉 😉
BTW, "Lindows" is neither free nor has it anything to do with GNU/Linux. It's a new OS aiming to support running applications written for Windows.
My version of Linux (the latest one available) has an emulator to run windows programs in Linux, 9or do all versions have this?)they says its not an emulator, but I don't know what to call it otherwise... it also comes with spreadsheet software able to open Excel files and a wordprocessor able to open word documents... it has an MP3 playing program JUST like winamp 2.** (but with a few more bugs, still to be fixed), also, as I posted before, the WHOLE GUI looks just like XP.. well, sorta.. 🙂 BUT!!! according to the requirements, THIS VERSION OF LINUX is MORE POWER HUNGRY than Windows XP!!!! 
500Mhz processor reccomended.... 64megs ram...
XP will run on a 200Mhz with 64megs... I suppose Linux might too.. 😛
500Mhz processor reccomended.... 64megs ram...
XP will run on a 200Mhz with 64megs... I suppose Linux might too.. 😛
Skinnyboy: Probably VMWare... It creates what they call a "virtual machine" VMware runs under Windows too, and FreeBSD, probably other OSes too. You could have been using wine, which is a compatilibity layer, it runs under a multitude of OSes also. Also note that Linux isn't an OS, it's just a kernel, you're just running a Linux/GNU distribution. The GNU corperation did provide most of the OS, along with the toolchain, and the C/C++ compiler, much of it back when Linus was still in diapers.
If Windows does everything you need then use it. Using Linux/GNU, or a BSD variety, or a Mach, or any other OS just because it's not from Microsoft is a pretty dumb concept. Do you drink Coke? Buy cable TV access? Drive a car? Goto movies? I mean really, most of everything in the long run is owned by large corperations which follow the same tatics as Microsoft does, they just aren't as lucky and/or as good at it. I find that most of the Linux/GNU base consists of young people fighting it towards some sort of a religion or something, it's really quite bizzare. Also the development for the Linux kernel I find to be rather stupid. Just a few select people in contol and distribution by tarballs, it really doesn't make sense. You see things like "I'm running the Linux kernel 2.4.2.2 with patch X, Y, Z from foo and patch A, B, C from bar", it's confusing, annoying, and poorly cordinated.
I'm writing this from my Windows 2000 Professional box, my uptime is 3 weeks or so on it, it runs a huge number of applications, and can be trimmed down to about 50M or so of RAM usage on bootup. It does what it does just fine. I run FreeBSD on my laptop for Perl, PHP, and lately Web+ and it does it's job just fine.
If Windows does everything you need then use it. Using Linux/GNU, or a BSD variety, or a Mach, or any other OS just because it's not from Microsoft is a pretty dumb concept. Do you drink Coke? Buy cable TV access? Drive a car? Goto movies? I mean really, most of everything in the long run is owned by large corperations which follow the same tatics as Microsoft does, they just aren't as lucky and/or as good at it. I find that most of the Linux/GNU base consists of young people fighting it towards some sort of a religion or something, it's really quite bizzare. Also the development for the Linux kernel I find to be rather stupid. Just a few select people in contol and distribution by tarballs, it really doesn't make sense. You see things like "I'm running the Linux kernel 2.4.2.2 with patch X, Y, Z from foo and patch A, B, C from bar", it's confusing, annoying, and poorly cordinated.
There is a lot of definitions for "free". The GNU license isn't completely "free". The BSD/MIT licences are both less restrictive.
Wal-Mart sells PC with Linux/GNU based OSes on them. Why would people want to learn something else besides Windows? Most home users are fine with it, it's easy to learn and use. Would you prefer a 100 different OSes from commercial companies all fighting over control with application compatiblity problems amoung all of them? Imagine trying to design software when there is 100 different first tier platforms.
I'm writing this from my Windows 2000 Professional box, my uptime is 3 weeks or so on it, it runs a huge number of applications, and can be trimmed down to about 50M or so of RAM usage on bootup. It does what it does just fine. I run FreeBSD on my laptop for Perl, PHP, and lately Web+ and it does it's job just fine.
Where are the mac Guys?
I run Macintosh OS X Jaguar* (V1.2.3) and less often Virtual Machines running Mac OS 9.2.2, Windows 98 and DOS 6.x.
* FreeBSD 4.x/Mach Kernal open source with Quartz & the Finder (apple proprietary) running on top.
Apple just released Safari for Jaguar based on Linux Open Source Code, and after speeding it up dramatically put the code back into Open Source... that should help you Linux guys out.
And i understand that the LapTops of choice for serious Linux Geeks is now the iBooks & PowerBooks (now available w 17" screen) running OS X.
dave
I run Macintosh OS X Jaguar* (V1.2.3) and less often Virtual Machines running Mac OS 9.2.2, Windows 98 and DOS 6.x.
* FreeBSD 4.x/Mach Kernal open source with Quartz & the Finder (apple proprietary) running on top.
Apple just released Safari for Jaguar based on Linux Open Source Code, and after speeding it up dramatically put the code back into Open Source... that should help you Linux guys out.
And i understand that the LapTops of choice for serious Linux Geeks is now the iBooks & PowerBooks (now available w 17" screen) running OS X.
dave
moses said:
It's not *completely* free, granted, but it is for the end user. What's most important (as i see it) than the "price" it's the fact that everything is crystal clear, since all the sources are there for you to see. I'm really surprised to see how an opensource OS got so big over the last years, with little or no support of bigger companies (until now).
As for the need of different OS, you got it right. *MOST* users are fine with it, but for the rest that is not (or not completely, for that sake), it's good to have alternatives. I'm not an anti-Windows freak, but i don't like what Microsoft's been doing lately with their buisness politics, and just reading WinXP's EULA gives me goosebumps. As i said, WinXP is a damn good OS, just WAY too bloated. Linux has been getting much more user friendly lately too, and if you install, say, Mandrake linux, you'll end up with a system any Windows user would feel at home with. You have software just as good (or better) in EVERY category you'd imagine on linux than you do on windows. Windows is much more widespreaded, so it has more variety.
Oh well. It's about tastes 🙂 I like my KDE desktop.
AMT-freak said:
I hear that there are spreadsheet programs and work programs that look like word and excel. Have any of you played with the VBA built into excel? (Or Acad2000, or other VBA enabled programs). If the Linux version of the spreadsheet supports these macro languages, then I'll look into it. But if not, it's not worth my time.
I'm not a microsoft fan, but have really grown to like some of the things you can do with windows and excel. 99.999% of the users will never really appreciate what you can do with the windows os. They are a little too aggressive, but their product can be used to do a lot.
As for windows internet, you need to run a good firewall program. There are a lot of free firewall's, that work well under windows. (I also use a win machine with firewall and proxy to serve HTTP/FTP/POP3/SMTP to my network)
-Dan
Sparhawk said:
The whole anti-trust litigation against Microsoft was based exactly on their tactics to avoid competing products to be sold with new machines. Fortunately, that is no longer the case. HP, DELL and IBM, just to name the largest manufacturers, sell machines with the Red Hat distribution of Linux pre-installed if the client so wishes. Microsoft does not see a penny of those sales.
🙂
Answering Dan's question, Sun sells a full-featured suite at a fraction of the cost of Microsoft Office. You can learn more about it here:
http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/presskits/staroffice6/brief.pdf
😉
http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/presskits/staroffice6/brief.pdf
😉
@dkemppai
I usually recommend OpenOffice, there is a Windows version, so you don't need to install a different operating system first.
It can be downloaded for free from www.openoffice.org
It's a pity that virtually everyone started to learn how to use computers by using a Microsoft operating system. So now they expect a piece of software to have a similar interface and functionality, otherwise they don't like it. However, many typical tasks (as typesetting) can be done even better by systems that are COMPLETELY different.
For example, take LaTeX and M$ Word. Ok, they are aimed at different target groups, BUT: M$ Word is used for writing books, diploma thesis and scientific documents. It's simply not designed for that job and performes poorly. On the other hand, LaTeX is perfectly suited for such tasks, and anyone who learned to use it will use this professional application even for writing letters or other "simple" tasks.
Ever wondered what software most books w/ complicated formulas and drawings are typeset with? You didn't expect you can download it for free, did you? ;-)
I usually recommend OpenOffice, there is a Windows version, so you don't need to install a different operating system first.
It can be downloaded for free from www.openoffice.org
It's a pity that virtually everyone started to learn how to use computers by using a Microsoft operating system. So now they expect a piece of software to have a similar interface and functionality, otherwise they don't like it. However, many typical tasks (as typesetting) can be done even better by systems that are COMPLETELY different.
For example, take LaTeX and M$ Word. Ok, they are aimed at different target groups, BUT: M$ Word is used for writing books, diploma thesis and scientific documents. It's simply not designed for that job and performes poorly. On the other hand, LaTeX is perfectly suited for such tasks, and anyone who learned to use it will use this professional application even for writing letters or other "simple" tasks.
Ever wondered what software most books w/ complicated formulas and drawings are typeset with? You didn't expect you can download it for free, did you? ;-)
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