I'm finding myself in agreement with most of this.. 😛
I've heard several of the Avantgarde designs and thought they were all uniformly retched ("thin", "bright", compressed in the midbass, tonally vacant, etc.).
Big modified Altec's on the other hand can sound expansive and "lush", though lacking in some of the "speed", image delineation, and depth of the very best systems (in each regard). IMO treble quality and depth are it's weakest points (beyond lacking low freq. extension near the average).
I'm not sure what model Avantgarde, it was a 3 way , big and driven with AudioNote electronics from japan, Agree on the VOTT, i haven't heard one in a long time but i do recall the lack of top end and low freq...
TDL Reference .. I want to make a pair !
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
If it has to be cone speaker I could live with higher model ($50-60K) of Audio Note E with all alnico drivers. For bigger space I'd get Tannoy Westminster or big 5 way horn system. I'm convinced horns are the best and most advanced speaker technology. Properly made they match in everything the conventional speakers do and excell in dynamic realism which is unobtainable by any other speaker topology. Not to mention they can profit from best amplification ever conceived -Single Ended Triode. The bitter fact is that I never heard application fully exploring the potential of horns and all setups were too compromised and sucked in one way or another 😉
Hi limono, can you describe your current setup? You've gone through the same steps as I have, but you're always five years ahead of me 🙂
My current setup ?? Ekh embarrassing question 😉 I'm listen now to little Proac Response 1s clones with original ancient woofers and Hipquone tweeters ( talk about integrity with me pounding on cloners on every (and without) occasion ;0)
and bought on swap meet Rel strata II sub. I moved in with my GF and had to compromise a little. I kept all (way too many ) horns , drivers , amps in hope that soon enough I can utilise them in civilised way . For now I try to just listen and enjoy the music in the way I used to , before getting involved in "the hobby" .Not easy at all, with my mind wandering constantly trough the options of " improving " the sound. F...ng torture hehehe . Regards, L
and bought on swap meet Rel strata II sub. I moved in with my GF and had to compromise a little. I kept all (way too many ) horns , drivers , amps in hope that soon enough I can utilise them in civilised way . For now I try to just listen and enjoy the music in the way I used to , before getting involved in "the hobby" .Not easy at all, with my mind wandering constantly trough the options of " improving " the sound. F...ng torture hehehe . Regards, L
Just wondering.... how the TDL-Rs would be judged against todays wonders...???
Somewhere I have a setup of TDL drawings...if I can still find them after a couple of house moves..
Somewhere I have a setup of TDL drawings...if I can still find them after a couple of house moves..
No idea , and I have never listened to them , but I have friend who had a pair and they were lost in a house fire , he cried for days, took weeks of private theropy before he would even look at another pair of speakers.. they ripped his soul out.. so I'm thinking they could be quite good 🙂
I think the differences between DIY and commercial speakers mostly all come down to the cabinet designs. Large manufacturers have the facilities to make exotic cab that few DIYers can match (not saying it can't be done but only a few). I wish sometimes I could make my wide baffle cab as fancy as those from Sonus Faber or the likes. When it comes to xover components or drivers, it's a fair game I think.
I was reading this month Absolute Sound reviewing a pretty high end pair of Monitor three-way speakers. In the review one of the quote says the designers after listening to various xover components, they decided to use prop. cap, air core, and for low freq. iron core inductors, and I thought to myself isn't that we we've been doing?
I was reading this month Absolute Sound reviewing a pretty high end pair of Monitor three-way speakers. In the review one of the quote says the designers after listening to various xover components, they decided to use prop. cap, air core, and for low freq. iron core inductors, and I thought to myself isn't that we we've been doing?
I've spent thousands of hours on DIY projects, but I still love my Gedlee Summas.
I wish they weren't so darn big, but it's hard to get around the laws of physics
I couldn't agree more. Literally made me want to run out of the room. The "wow factor" is something else - I mean they look wild!
But the sound! Ugh.
I've heard Klipsch computer speakers which were more listenable, and some JBL bookshelfs at Best Buy that were quite nice.
Expensive loudspeakers are a strange lot - there is very little correlation between price and quality. It seems like the primary justification for the high prices is to say to your friends "I can afford a speaker that costs more than your car." It's like the guys who buy Lamborghinis, but then drive them four times a year, and never fast, and the main reason they own them is so that they can park them where their friends will see it. These guys don't buy a Lambo to DRIVE a Lambo, they buy a Lambo so everyone will know they can buy a Lambo.
I've heard a handful of exceptions (notably from TAD) but the rest? Ugh. No thanks.
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According to Jim Smith, former AG distributor most problems with Avantgarde sound is related to improper set up. Thats why he is charging $500 a day plus transportation cost to make sure, the rich Lambo drivers have optimal results in their residences 😉.
If money were not an issue (since I could also build a listening room,) that would be Wilson Audio Wamm's
Then if I needed a sub it would be a Wilson AudioWHOW or maybe a Wilson Audio Thor's Hammer.
Of course, money being no object, the room would be designed for both.
P
Having heard WA Sophia/Watts with the WHOW, geez.
Then if I needed a sub it would be a Wilson AudioWHOW or maybe a Wilson Audio Thor's Hammer.
Of course, money being no object, the room would be designed for both.
P
Having heard WA Sophia/Watts with the WHOW, geez.
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😀
I personally think that those that like them like their initial appeal of a vastly more efficient loudspeaker (overlooking other inadequate areas). If you are used to average "hifi" fare then the gains in efficiency can result in a dynamic "wow" factor.
Then you "contemplate" the dispersion pattern vs. the room - typically vacillating back and forth over "this is better, no it's not, yes it is, no it's not..".
..and then typically you move onto something different.
I've read several reviewers that have gone through this sort of "process" with the Avantgardes.
Back when I worked as a consultant I made a good living charging exboritant fees to tell people that their existing solutions were sub-standard. I hate to sound like such a crusty old cynic, but there's good money to be made by telling people that their gear stinks. (I worked in software, not audio. But it's the same idea).
There are plenty of companies that have gone bankrupt while selling excellent affordable solutions.
I have no desire to upgrade the speakers I've been using for twenty five years, my B&W 801's.
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