This basic EE lecture is not specific to IC opamps. It applies to any sort of opamp, including discrete ones (like Parasound power amps).
including discrete ones (like Parasound power amps).
I was going through some stuff today and noticed that, I like to call them op-amps on steroids.
Just pulling your leg, Mr. Wurcer
Sorry I need the clown face or I go off half cocked. 😉
So to sum this thread up...
There is nothing wrong with op-amps
Here is a nice test:
Straight wire VS 4562, pick which is which
Straight wire VS 5532, pick which is which
Straight wire VS 4558, pick which is which
Straight wire VS TL072, pick which is which
Straight wire VS OP271, pick which is which
Walt did the 744/811 and 823/815 composite line stages. Lots of happy DIYer's built one of them so it's sort of old news. xDSL requires IMD performance out to ungodly frequencies but only at the 65-70dB level but the use of huge GBW and GOBS of feedback gets pretty good performance at 20k.
Just pulling your leg, Mr. Wurcer
Likewise. 😀 (Opamp Applications is pretty much mandatory reading, right?)
All 1k+ pages of it.
(Mr. Wurcer triggered the memory of reading that line in Mr. Zumbahlen's book, somewhere in the first two chapters)
(Mr. Wurcer triggered the memory of reading that line in Mr. Zumbahlen's book, somewhere in the first two chapters)
The fact that Jay pulled out the one particular opamp is rather impressive, not sure of the statistical probability of that as a guess?
It is a guess. An educated guess. If you read my analysis, you'll know that I didn't compare 4562 with 4558 or TL072, because 4562 is in a different league than those two.
While looking at the graph that I think was put up by Mooly I could clearly see a difference in the small details, there were some clearly visible height differences in small spikes, now whether they are audible is the question
They are audible.
and why those are so is another question.
This is also a question I would want to be answered. Since long time ago. I know that it is not easy to prepare a test like this (thank's Mooly) that's why I didn't want to ask...
What I want to know is, is this visual difference is the characteristics of the DUT?? Because this visual difference is what I can hear in many blind test cases, but there is no proof that this difference is the DUT characteristics.
To prove it is actually simple. We do several recordings and observe if the visual difference is still there (same amplitude and frequency) between two DUTs.
All 1k+ pages of it.
Mr. Zumbahlen's book
Hank is is a good buddy known him for decades.
Interesting....I have one of those old H-P 339A's......which opamp did you choose?The circuit Z makes a fairly large difference in how the opamp behaves. The THD meter - HP339A - has an oscillator that is based on an opamp. When trying different opamps, the THD was all over the place... and not always representative of the spec sheet. I finally found one that gave the lowest THD for the circuit Z's being used. ed Z values used for measuring all opamps doesn't show this variability. But in Your circuit using different Z, you might get different results like I did with the opamps I tried in the 339A.THx-RNMarsh
Your thinking Blodywn could be the TL072
Yes, read here:
ETHEL
With blodwyn this is one of the most distorted sound. I tried to listen the sound of brush in order to find which one is 4558, because in my opinion, cheap low slew rate opamp will not be able to produce HF/brush well. I think this is 4558.
My ABX for 4558 and TL072 regarding that small segment was 5/8. So to find which one is the 4558 I need a variable of quality. I need to use the brush sound for this. Note, this is for the first time I use brush sound (or HF) to determine which one is which between 4558 and TL072 and it appeared that it can't be done that way (OR: I will conclude that TL072 has worse brush sound than 4558). Of course, SR difference is too small and shouldn't be audible. But I expected (based on purely guess work) a JFET input opamp (TL072) will have better brush sound than 4558, which appeared to be wrong too.
What still surprises me is just how good (in this test) the 4558 appeared to be.
Yes. And how bad the TL072 is.
Esmerelda is the 4562 as you suspected.
Another vote for the 4562 (Esmerelda).
Yes, I believe that 4562 will be the winner if you conduct a preference test. This is because "dynamics" is the most critical factor for enjoyment and it is very easy to perceive (by most ears).
ESMERALDA
This shows dynamics that usually belongs to 4562. But this chip is not musical. It should be one of the two "high-end" chips (4562/OP275) but OP275 has JFET input so I think OP275 fits better with the other high-end file. I think this is 4562.
Code:[B]File name Blodywn = TI4558 File name Esmerelda = LM4562 File name Ethel = TL072 File name Gladys = OP275 File name Mabel = NE5532 [/B]
You know what, I was planning to give two thumbs up to Douglass Self if Gladys were NE5532. I thought, he must be an expert if he could make the 5532 as good as that Gladys, without issues I always find associated with 5532. But until now, 5532 is still what it is.
GLADYS
This is the most balanced. Perfect, hard to find anything wrong. This is the strength of 5532, but unfortunately I can't find the weakness usually associated with 5532. So I predict that this could be the chip originally used for this circuit. So I checked Mooly's thread and indeed the original Douglass Self preamp uses 5532. I think this is 5532.
MABEL
This was the winner regarding the musical bend at lyrics "In fields...". Detail and clear. But as a whole I found this fatiguing, like usually found in 4562. But that musical bend matches closely with JFET input opamp, even tho OP275 is I think a mixed between JFET and BJT. I think this is OP275.
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And how bad the TL072 is.
Its badness is contextual. Give it practically no load to drive and its totally fine.
Mark, have a lovely day. I'm absolutely wrong about a number of things, no doubt. Look forward to your diatribe on why I won't ever amount to anything. Oh wait, you've already done that.
😀
The best people I know for upsetting psychologists are research neuroscientists, working on brain models. I couldn't possibly quote their comments...
Hmmm... I think I'm the best one to do that (narcissist 😀) for 2 reasons:
(1) You should know human psychology well in order to know other people's psychology condition and use that information to find the "issue" in his mental condition. Insecure people have so many issues that when you "push" on one specific small "spot", they will go crazy and hurt so bad.
(2) You should have stable, good psychology or mental condition if you want to get involve in a "war". There is "action-reaction". If people are hurt or attacked they will hurt or attack back.
Psychologists, OTOH, are not special. Most psychologists are ordinary people who read Psychology books. Those who are good with Psychology, they can write psychology books. It is something that you "just understand" without reading other people's book or opinion...
The problem with psychologists are, when they don't have the capacity to understand Psychology, they learn the Psychology and they misinterpret it. They label people based on what they have learned from the books they read.
That's why I said (to Jacco) the other day that Psychology is often about Statistics. It works for the majority, but it doesn't work for the outliers...
That's why we can find some geniuses refuse to have their IQ measured. That's I think because they don't like those psychologists "label" them based on a stupid algorithm and act as if they are more "genius" than the geniuses. If you want to measure other people intelligence, you have to be more intelligent, no short cut.
Its badness is contextual. Give it practically no load to drive and its totally fine.
Yes, agree. TL072 was one of my favorite. But LF353 is just better (I think it's a high end version of TL072)
Those who are good with Psychology, they can write psychology books. It is something that you "just understand" without reading other people's book or opinion...
That was true at the time of Freud and then Jung, when psychology was primarily theoretical. It started to change with Skinner, but experimental research was done with animals, other than humans. The results didn't work so well on people, as it turned out. Then Martin Seligman came along and almost single-handedly changed the paradigm. He faced incredible resistance and criticism, and it took him 20 years. Now, we have modern cognitive psychology which is mostly experimental, and experimental methodology in this area is continuing to be refined. In addition, cognitive psychologists now often collaborate cross-disciplinarily with neuroscientists and others. Things have changed dramatically, at least for psychologists who keep up with the field. Unfortunately, there are still many in practice who received their training 20 years ago and have not kept up.
Not so fast, there are reasons like disc pit/land quality for causing bad sounding cd copies.
Dan.
You don't mean that while maintaining correct detection of ones and zeros, the pit and land makes a difference?
//
That's why I said (to Jacco) the other day that Psychology is often about Statistics. It works for the majority, but it doesn't work for the outliers...
That tends to be the case with a large number of these blunt-object tests and synthetic markers: useful primarily at the population level, but weakly correlated at the individual level.
And, yes, clean diagnoses make for pretty case studies, but real human beings are messy. I quoted the "Zebras" medical aphorism, but there's also Hickman's dictum: "Patients can have as many diseases as they **mn well please".
Both aphorisms say, "look for big effects that are common first before going off on a wild goose chase". My comments, however belligerently given or received, stem from that problem-solving mindset.
Late for the show.
Do I have to register with dropbox to download the files?
No. There is nothing to register for or install. Just decline (close) any offer to join Dropbox and you should see the links to the files.
Regarding statistics and individual people, a possibly interesting psychological finding is that most people tend to think statistics don't apply to them, rather that they are an exception, or at one end of a bell curve. It is hypothesized that people feel that way because they know so many personal details about themselves, and for most people, statistics are only used when specific detailed information is unknown or unavailable. When specific, detailed information is available, the correct solution would be to combine that information with available statistical information using Bayes rule. This is fully discussed in the book, Thinking Fast and Slow.
Also, it should be noted that statistics are generally derived from populations of individuals, most of whom don't believe the statistics apply to them.
Also, it should be noted that statistics are generally derived from populations of individuals, most of whom don't believe the statistics apply to them.
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