What is the Universe expanding into..

Do you think there was anything before the big bang?

  • I don't think there was anything before the Big Bang

    Votes: 56 12.5%
  • I think something existed before the Big Bang

    Votes: 200 44.7%
  • I don't think the big bang happened

    Votes: 54 12.1%
  • I think the universe is part of a mutiverse

    Votes: 201 45.0%

  • Total voters
    447
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The expansion of the universe is not to be compared to an explosion where material expands outwards from a central point.

The Big Bang occurred everywhere at once and not just at a single point.
I'm not so sure really. And are you using "your" definition of the "creation event"... first Inflation, then BB?

According to that definition, the "space" was created by Inflation and then filled with something by the BB.

  • Did the Inflation create the Background Radiation? Maybe as it is so omnipresent.
  • Did the BB create the BR? Perhaps...

Acc to the creation definition, "Universe" was compressed into the size of a ping-pong ball. This ping-pong ball expanded by the BB into the Inflated Universe in a fraction of a second. How could it go so fast and long reaching - probably the law of physics was not in place yet so no silly speed limitations... ?

If there is anything in the ping-pong ball I think the universe was indeed expanded like an explosion, but maybe it was so fast that we wouldnt have recognized it as a normal agricultural fertiliser explosion:


This all happened a long time ago - I think it just speculation to deduct anything from this.. data is just to weak.

But hopefully WEB can shed some light into this ;-)

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Thanks for the Ice-Dancer analysis, Galu. You are quite right she reduces her moment of inertia by pulling her arms in. Thus increasing her angular velocity.

I think Angular Momentum must be Conserved since there is no external Torque.

On exiting the Spin, she must be getting a Force from the Ice to stop the Spin. Makes you think carefully, doesn't it.

I think my next effort must be to pick up H.C. Verma's Newtonian Mechanics Lectures again. My little Brain is in quite the muddle on Quantum Mechanics Spin at the moment.

I always used to find my Brain was quite overloaded by Physics lectures at College. So much to take in. Strange Place, the Universe, and Stranger still are the people who worry about it all.

I'll put the Expanding Universe on the back-burner. It's not expanding everywhere, as it goes. Our local Virgo Cluster is pulling together. Lots of Dark Matter here, which may be right-handed neutrinos, so not feel the Weak force. It will all end up one giant Galaxy in the long run apparently.

A little Gardening might help me relax. You always sleep well after a bit of physical activity. 🙂
 
I used the example of two objects which then had a force acting on one or both. So the IFOR’s between them changed.

"IFOR" one don't understand the way in which they have changed. 😀

An inertial frame of reference is one in which an object not subject to forces moves in a straight line at constant speed.

An object subject to forces will accelerate within an inertial frame, but the inertial frame remains the same.

I admit to being confused and take comfort in the fact that Einstein was unhappy with how inertial reference frames are defined:

"The weakness of the principle of inertia lies in this, that it involves an argument in a circle: a mass moves without acceleration if it is sufficiently far from other bodies; we know that it is sufficiently far from other bodies only by the fact that it moves without acceleration." - Albert Einstein: The Meaning of Relativity, p58.
 
t's weird that it took you a half hour to lash out..with a response to Bonsai in between.🤪

You obviously weren't my first priority. 😉

P.S. How's the mirror?
 

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To be clear, according to the hypothesised model of 'cosmic inflation - cosmic reheating - hot big bang', space existed prior to the inflation.

The energy that ultimately created the universe we know is said to have existed within that early space as quantum fluctuations.

I described the hypothesis in some detail earlier and gave a reference to my source.

No one has to believe this particular hypothesis - it is but one of several. We can't ever be certain of what happened prior to the big bang.
 
🙂 true that... "early space"... 🙂 when you put e v e r y t h i n g into a ping pong ball sized thingy, I would guess there isn't anything outside this ball. Nothing as in no dark matter, no dark energy, no light, no nothing.... except for one thing..... (wait for it...)

Gravity. ;-D

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Thanks for the Ice-Dancer analysis, Galu.

I think Angular Momentum must be Conserved since there is no external Torque.

On exiting the Spin, she must be getting a Force from the Ice to stop the Spin. Makes you think carefully, doesn't it.

Thanks, Steve.

Yes, angular momentum is only conserved in the absence of an external torque (torque being force x distance from axis of rotation) and of course the ice exerts very little force on the skater during the spin.

Exiting the spin requires that a large external torque be supplied by the ice e.g. by using the inside edge of the blade.

Some exits, e.g. jumps, are more difficult to perform and gain more points in competitions.

Wikipedia has thought very carefully about it all! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_spins
 
when you put e v e r y t h i n g into a ping pong ball sized thingy, I would guess there isn't anything outside this ball.

You'll remember way back when we offered up the raisin cake model as an analogy for the expansion of the universe.

However, this analogy has a weakness in that a raisin cake can be seen to expand into the oven pan.

To make it truly analogous to the universe, it is necessary to imagine raisin cake that has no observable edge.

Expansion would still occur, but the question "what is the raisin cake expanding into?" would be meaningless.
 

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🙂 true that... "early space"... 🙂 when you put e v e r y t h i n g into a ping pong ball sized thingy, I would guess there isn't anything outside this ball. Nothing as in no dark matter, no dark energy, no light, no nothing.... except for one thing..... (wait for it...)

Gravity. ;-D

.........
Hi TNT 🙂
Funny you should mention Gravity, Since one of my awed Physichsist " Lisa Randell " Besides Max-Tegmark, Michio Kaku, Sean-Carrol...
Has theorized that gravity is the only natural force not inherent in and leaking into this universe,, but from somewhere.?? Else.?
She Argued That why else could The Gravity Force Of Our Whole Planet Easily Be Overcome By Say A Fridge Magnet Picking uP A Paper Clip,, And That Because The Gravity was Leaking into this From Another Dimension it was so weakend.......
🙂 😎 🙂
 
I think the universe was indeed expanded like an explosion

I've been doing some more reading! 🤓

Big Bang theory simply says that some point in time long ago, the part of the universe in which we now live was extremely hot, dense, and almost uniform - full of a dense soup of particles, and in the process of expanding and cooling.

The Big Bang was nothing like an explosion. Things didn’t rush into space, space simply became much larger.

It is space* that is expanding - it is not the objects within it that are moving.

*Of course it is actually spacetime that is expanding. Einstein realised that space is not just a place where things happen - it is a sort of thing itself, capable of growing, shrinking, deforming, wiggling, and changing shape. Think gravitational waves for example.
 
And Just So That To 🙂 Are On the Table...
As we all know we learn that NOTHING.!! No Thing, mass, Can Move Faster Then Speed Of Light,
Well...... 🙂
There is ONE Exception to this RULE,
NOTHING.!!
Or Empty space Can move Faster Then The Speed Of Light (Whithout Braking Einstein Laws of Physics)......
And During the inflation (where it popped in virtual no time at all from the size of a marble to about 20 Light years sphere) It Did Exceed The Speed Of Light.... 🙂
It is as Far as i thought was known,
When Both the strong, weak, Nucleic Forces and ElectroMagnetism was merged (see i did not mention gravity) into One SuperForce, And only after enough Exspansion and cooling Did those Forces Split of and became separate... 🙂
🙂 😎
 
She Argued That why else could The Gravity Force Of Our Whole Planet Easily Be Overcome By Say A Fridge Magnet Picking uP A Paper Clip,, And That Because The Gravity was Leaking into this From Another Dimension it was so weakend.......

The question of why gravity is so weak compared to electromagnetic forces is an interesting one.

Gravity is a real weakling: 10^40 times weaker than the electromagnetic force that holds atoms together.

Your "She" will be referring to String Theory.

According to String Theory, gravity is so weak because, unlike the other action at a distance forces, it leaks in and out of extra dimensions and we only get to experience a dribble of the true strength of gravity.
 
It's Quite Obvious..
As Long as there is a speed limit ( the speed of light ) There is when some (whatever small or large) Space,,
Automaticly TIME...
Or Rather more correct SpaceTime.... 🙂
If There is space there just have to be time,
Because of the speed limit it will ALWAYS Take time to move from one place (in that space) to Another..... 🙂
 
The question of why gravity is so weak compared to electromagnetic forces is an interesting one.

Gravity is a real weakling: 10^40 times weaker than the electromagnetic force that holds atoms together.

Your "She" will be referring to String Theory.

According to String Theory, gravity is so weak because, unlike the other action at a distance forces, it leaks in and out of extra dimensions and we only get to experience a dribble of the true strength of gravity.
Hi Galu...
Yes your quite right About That, That "she - Lisa Randell " Was Theorizing About String Theory,,
I picked it uP when watching a TV Show i on Discovery Science,
And remember that i was Fasinated by her theory's, Especially That about how much weaker Gravity is in Comparison to the other Forces...... 🙂 I am sooo fasinated By Quantum Physics and all that it imply's,
That there is now way to make contact with me when shows like that are on, i'm like a spunge Glued To The screen he he 🙂
Wow is it really as much as 10 to the 40'th...
 
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