What is the Universe expanding into..

Do you think there was anything before the big bang?

  • I don't think there was anything before the Big Bang

    Votes: 56 12.5%
  • I think something existed before the Big Bang

    Votes: 200 44.7%
  • I don't think the big bang happened

    Votes: 54 12.1%
  • I think the universe is part of a mutiverse

    Votes: 201 45.0%

  • Total voters
    447
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It seems to me that you did not understand my point from the beginning, let me explain again with a little rough demonstration, because my Tarzan-English obviously doesn't help.

The Lorentz force on a particle with charge q and velocity v is

F = q [E + (1/c) v x B]
Hence, the work done

F . v
= q [E + (1/c) v x B] . v = q E . v

Does not depend on B

For a classical solid, from statistical mechanics, it follows that the magnetic moment in thermal equilibrium remains zero in any magnetic field.

Then, statistically, electrons do not interact with an applied magnetic field, and magnetism is a quantum effect.

I understand what you re talking about, of course that thoses equations are valid but only under certain conditions, the most notable is that no magnetic monopole exist and that all magnetic fields are created by dipoles made of a negative and a positive charge, that s why the magnetic field has no influence is the equations above, this is my point that you didnt seem to understand, ie, that our equations are a general case that is valid only in a given range/local part of the universe, call it like you wants...



This is a classical-quantum mess, if you go to an “electrons store” and ask for about 0.5 grams of electrons, they will sell you “free electrons” with spin, hence you can not construct a classical solid which needs spinless electrons.

What a relief, hydrogen saved us from going to the electrons store!

Nevertheless, I agree that EM force is about 36 orders of magnitude greater than gravitational force.

The last sentence would had been enough scientificaly speaking, i m aware that you cant create electrons made matters, or did you doubt about it.?
 
I understand what you re talking about, of course that thoses equations are valid but only under certain conditions, the most notable is that no magnetic monopole exist and that all magnetic fields are created by dipoles made of a negative and a positive charge, that s why the magnetic field has no influence is the equations above, this is my point that you didnt seem to understand, ie, that our equations are a general case that is valid only in a given range/local part of the universe, call it like you wants...

1.- Physics is made by theories and theories are expressed with equations; each theory has a frame of validity.

2.- So far nobody can say if magnetic monopoles exist or not.

3.- All magnetic fields are NOT created only by magnetic dipoles, currents can create magnetic fields also.

4.- Even supposing that magnetic monopoles really exist, Maxwell's equations should change a little, and Lorentz force should add a term for the magnetic monopole, but, concerning of classical electrons, things would be the same, i.e. classical electrons in a material would not interact with an applied magnetic field.


The last sentence would had been enough scientificaly speaking, i m aware that you cant create electrons made matters, or did you doubt about it.?

If I understand correctly your sentence, you did not with mine.

By construct a classical solid, I mean that you need classical electrons, as classical protons and neutrons too.

I am aware that this would be physically impossible, but, for the record, was you who confused classical electrons with real electrons from the beginning.
 
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1.- Physics is made by theories and theories are expressed with equations; each theory has a frame of validity.

2.- So far nobody can say if magnetic monopoles exist or not.


3.- All magnetic fields are NOT created only by magnetic dipoles, currents can create magnetic fields also.

4.- Even supposing that magnetic monopoles really exist, Maxwell's equations should change a little, and Lorentz force should add a term for the magnetic monopole, but, concerning of classical electrons, things would be the same, i.e. classical electrons in a material would not interact with an applied magnetic field.


Existence of monopoles is theoricaly possible as proved by Dirac, i wont comment points 2 and 3 since i agree more or less with thoses.

Magnetic fields do not interact with electrons that are within a solid because the divergence of a magnetic field is null by the virtue of said dipoles, with a monopole the divergence would be non null and interaction would occur, the same way divergence of an electric field is non null and as such it interacts with electrons, btw electrons rotating around a kernel behave like magnetic dipoles as they can be interpreted as infinitesimal current loops that generate equally infinitesimal magnetic fields.


If I understand correctly your sentence, you did not with mine.

By construct a classical solid, I mean that you need classical electrons, as classical protons and neutrons too.

I am aware that this would be physically impossible, but, for the record, was you who confused classical electrons with real electrons from the beginning.

I agree with all your sentences, mind you, even the ones i m questionning...

My point was to give an idea of the EM force magnitude relatively to the usual force we re measuring through our motions, ie, gravity, saying that it s 36 orders of magnitude higher is not instantaneously understood by everybody, let say that we should stay at the vulgarizing level, although mathematical formulations are possible and welcomed if understable by most people who have some formal basic training, after all Einstein himself has trouble to grasp the tensors theory that is at the heart of physics.
 
There is no such thing as "our universe"; there is only the universe.
And beyond the universe it is still the universe. ...Because the universe is everything, even beyond infinity and non-existence (absence of time).

_______

♦ Are monopoles (direct radiating dispersion) better than dipoles, bipolars, tripoles, quadrupoles and omnipolars? ...Speakers.
 
Existence of monopoles is theoricaly possible as proved by Dirac

Agree, but you did say that

the most notable is that no magnetic monopole exist

Maybe, maybe not.



You still confuse a solid with a perfectly classical solid.

Magnetic fields do not interact with electrons that are within a solid because the divergence of a magnetic field is null by the virtue of said dipoles

No, electrons of a solid do interact with an applied magnetic field, because magnetism is a quantum effect and electrons do have spin.

Electrons of a perfectly classical solid do not interact with an applied magnetic field, because magnetism is a quantum effect and classical electrons do not have spin.



You seem to confuse electrons with magnetic monopoles.

with a monopole the divergence would be non null and interaction would occur

If magnetic monopoles really exist

. B = 4 π ρ(magnetic monopoles)

But interaction is with magnetic monopoles, not electrons; the Lorentz force should add a term for the magnetic monopole, but for the electron is exactly the same as before.



the same way divergence of an electric field is non null and as such it interacts with electrons, btw electrons rotating around a kernel behave like magnetic dipoles as they can be interpreted as infinitesimal current loops that generate equally infinitesimal magnetic fields.

Electrons rotating around a nucleus is an obsolete model, anyway, if you classically can interpret them as infinitesimal current loops that generate equally infinitesimal magnetic fields, the random orientation makes that statistically the contribution to total magnetic field is zero.
 
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yes we live in a very inefficient system where very advanced technology appeared only after the creation of our society models.

we have to update the social model to be on par

example: atomb bomb in the hands of very old social tradition

we must reequilibrate that : updated technology with updated basis of society

and thus we cannot control our technology and global warming appear because we produced too much petroleum based car than the planet could support.

not to mention that the supply is finite, which makes planning very difficult? ex: when do we have to stop using gaz car?when does it really endanger our specy? we just dont know but the sooner we stop the better!
 
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in fact, the human specy extinction may only happen if we dont take time as a planet to look where we are going.

it's like running a 100M race lloking only where your opponents are, never looking foward (where a wall is standing) because you are too busy looking right and left!
 
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