stereo amplifiers are not "bad".
Simplified:
mono amp = once channel, one box, inside one power supply, one amplifier section
dual mono amp = one box, two channels, two power supplies, two amplifier sections, separate in one enclosure
stereo amp = one box, two channels, one shared power supply, two amplifier sections, all in one enclosure.
good and bad are relative terms, there are benefits and deficits from any and all real world electronics implementations. you have to choose amongst them to get something that is good enough for you.
the aim of those who do or pick "dual mono" or "bi-amped" is to optimize and minimize certain compromises.
for most people, most listeners, this makes little difference compared to the actual amplifier and it's implementation, AND compared to the quality of the source (and source playback units) and most importantly the speakers and listening environment.
one reason that DIY is so interesting and popular is that by building your own gear, you can avoid some of the deficits of commercial gear, optimize to your own needs, and save $$ compared to commercially built equipment of equivalent quality and type.
_-_-
PS. the "crosstalk" issue is essentially irrelevant in practical terms.
Simplified:
mono amp = once channel, one box, inside one power supply, one amplifier section
dual mono amp = one box, two channels, two power supplies, two amplifier sections, separate in one enclosure
stereo amp = one box, two channels, one shared power supply, two amplifier sections, all in one enclosure.
good and bad are relative terms, there are benefits and deficits from any and all real world electronics implementations. you have to choose amongst them to get something that is good enough for you.
the aim of those who do or pick "dual mono" or "bi-amped" is to optimize and minimize certain compromises.
for most people, most listeners, this makes little difference compared to the actual amplifier and it's implementation, AND compared to the quality of the source (and source playback units) and most importantly the speakers and listening environment.
one reason that DIY is so interesting and popular is that by building your own gear, you can avoid some of the deficits of commercial gear, optimize to your own needs, and save $$ compared to commercially built equipment of equivalent quality and type.
_-_-
PS. the "crosstalk" issue is essentially irrelevant in practical terms.
I have said the last frase so that a forward reader would understand better the problem!
I did understand earlier that dual mono is better to electricity feed amplifier by amplifier, but one amplifier that is stereo is served good in high range amplifier, but in bad chematics it could loose some fidelity in amplification!
So I have my soul peaced that my stereo amplifier does not loose much of fidelity.! Right?
I did understand earlier that dual mono is better to electricity feed amplifier by amplifier, but one amplifier that is stereo is served good in high range amplifier, but in bad chematics it could loose some fidelity in amplification!
So I have my soul peaced that my stereo amplifier does not loose much of fidelity.! Right?
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There are many paths towards a particular goal. The models that you have mention do happen to have a tone/source direct switch for hi-fi and they also have good reputations and they have an extremely high build quality. That is all good news.
Tech that has a regulator, voltage divider, or simple filter to create a little drop and then the power re-stiffened by a capacitor to stabilize the small signal voltage amplifier section also do happen to produce a performance very much like dual mono. The Honey Badger amplifier is made that way, although the Virtual Dual Mono circuit is not obvious to the eye. Front end on regs or even more elementary filtering doesn't actually keep the power separate per left and right, but it does get the job done by keeping the noise separate per left and right. It is not necessary to have two transformers and not necessary to do the job at large signal (except for chip amplifiers that don't have the hookup pins to do anything else), but instead, discrete amplifiers do the job at small signal, and that is very much typical of any good discrete amp. It is actually a common standard practice and probably inside the amplifiers that you already own.
Ultimately, it will be more effective to worry about the speaker instead of worrying about a very well reviewed amplifier. Actually, speakers are the output and could be a limitation.
That gives you center stage sound so that the musicians aren't missing.
You're in for an epic thrill if you add a stereo pair to that, resulting in TrioPhonic.
It can sound as good as before; however, ever so much bigger, more lively and dynamic.
This is probably not wise indoors if you do it to real concert equipment. But, it isn't boring.
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You are going to remain confused with or without our suggestions until you make your own decisions, build and listen for yourself.
Much of what is discussed here never materialises because of our dithering over whether something might be perfect or not. In reality, you may enjoy something that sounds awful to someone else because there is no real standard of what is good for everyone. Technical perfection is easy to define with instruments but subjective sound quality is a matter of personal opinion, no matter how many experts agree. I know this, looking and listening to systems other guys are building, testing and playing, as well as new equipment in showrooms.
It is also likely that whatever you build first will not be what you wanted anyway. Build in stereo and leave space to upgrade with filtered rails or go to dual mono when you can do so. Listen to various systems your Hi-fi friends have. Experiment, adapt and prove to yourself what amplifiers are capable of doing for your listening pleasure because we can't do this by citing our own experiences - we all have different backgrounds and equipment in the land of DIYaudio
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Ok! I got that all I was saying was that Higher in class amplifiers get more atention, bigger traffo, biger capacitance, double number of transistors! And for dual mono it has got better feed with electricity because the 2 transformers and when the boards are separate better sound because of the separate L/R amplifier sections. So what would you say about SONY TA-F808ES is it much over the Yamaha AX-1070 as equipment and delivering more due to this fact? Thank you!
Few of us here, other than guys in audio retail business or repair technicians will have wide experience with recent (since 1990) audio amplifiers. There are plenty of forums that do nothing but share opinions about retail products and those 2 amps have been said to be good but not exceptional products. I haven't listened to either of them, to be honest and I doubt many others here would. As usual, half the forum replies to reviews hate the amplifiers and can't abide them and the other half say they are the finest amplifiers of the last 10 years or whatever. You need to read them all to come your conclusion in this area of subjective opinions where nothing is right or wrong.
I think that if you want to read opinions or reviews of products, there are much better forums for it than DIYAudio. Start with Audiogon to get the basics and then look about with Google for more at Audiokarma, Hifi Choice and plenty of others. In fact, I have just been reading about those models to see what was said that might be credible. Much opinion is more imagination than reality and reading several is the only way to check.
Good luck with retail audio if that's your interest but if you want to try doing things for yourself, we're always happy to suggest what to try from our own experience and point you to where you can start with the tools and components, kits etc.
I think that if you want to read opinions or reviews of products, there are much better forums for it than DIYAudio. Start with Audiogon to get the basics and then look about with Google for more at Audiokarma, Hifi Choice and plenty of others. In fact, I have just been reading about those models to see what was said that might be credible. Much opinion is more imagination than reality and reading several is the only way to check.
Good luck with retail audio if that's your interest but if you want to try doing things for yourself, we're always happy to suggest what to try from our own experience and point you to where you can start with the tools and components, kits etc.
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A couple of basics inspections:
Can you turn up the bass knob without hindering clarity and does turning up the bass knob result in inappropriate booming or can the bass knob also increase the lowest notes properly?
As for the midrange, especially female voice, are you able to crank up the amplifier loud and still enjoy it or is it too hard/angry/shout sounding? I ask because impedance management. Did they take the time to either swamp or cut this harmonic problem, directly to the middle-ground point, without wandering off the mark to either shout or recessed sound?
What is the model number of the output transistors (only the biggest transistors that are attached to the heatsink--Or see the schematic), and how many output devices does it have in total?
If the number of output devices is minimal for cost savings (2 biggies per each channel), then the amplifier could still be arranged for 45 watts of music and 100-ish watts of advertised headroom (with sturdy devices). That can work, but isn't an obvious sign of quality (you'll be needing those part model numbers and the schematic).
However, we can quickly learn something about the build quality if the amplifier has parallel output devices (4 biggies per each channel or more), because then we can see, visually, that the designer put in the extra effort to maintain linearity.
The three large signal bottlenecks with an audio amplifier are potentially: Speaker, Power supply, and Output Devices.
Can you turn up the bass knob without hindering clarity and does turning up the bass knob result in inappropriate booming or can the bass knob also increase the lowest notes properly?
As for the midrange, especially female voice, are you able to crank up the amplifier loud and still enjoy it or is it too hard/angry/shout sounding? I ask because impedance management. Did they take the time to either swamp or cut this harmonic problem, directly to the middle-ground point, without wandering off the mark to either shout or recessed sound?
What is the model number of the output transistors (only the biggest transistors that are attached to the heatsink--Or see the schematic), and how many output devices does it have in total?
If the number of output devices is minimal for cost savings (2 biggies per each channel), then the amplifier could still be arranged for 45 watts of music and 100-ish watts of advertised headroom (with sturdy devices). That can work, but isn't an obvious sign of quality (you'll be needing those part model numbers and the schematic).
However, we can quickly learn something about the build quality if the amplifier has parallel output devices (4 biggies per each channel or more), because then we can see, visually, that the designer put in the extra effort to maintain linearity.
The three large signal bottlenecks with an audio amplifier are potentially: Speaker, Power supply, and Output Devices.
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AX-1070 AND the Sony are both "badgers"(blameless)
(below 1-2)
The sony is a "better Badger" with more a refined front end (cascodeed VAS ,
better CCS). It also has a EF2 MOSFET output stage. It would have better
PSSR , as well.
The AX is a proprietary POS with a "super A" type IC trying to make up
for a gradeschool level input stage and a "el cheepo" output stage.
Study the schemas and these conclusions will be apparent.
The sony also has a respectable power supply (as compared to the yamaha).
OS
Attachments
Hey there! Neighder of them the Pioneer or the Yamaha did or do not by case, seffer of these symptoms, no boomy bass, clear vocals, the Pioneer was more vocal, and the volume knob with increase was sounding good no bad effects on the sound. The Yamaha has 8 transistors, the Pioneer had 4 transistors.
An "Achilles heel" of the full range is that whenever the cone moves for loud replay of bass, that shaking cone distorts the treble. So, if the little monacor is used full range with a higher power amplifier, the rapid cone movement will make a distortion that sounds very much like amplifier clipping.
It isn't the amplifier's fault.
That is the speaker.
A fix:
Try a first order series crossover along with a helper Tweeter (of approximately similar efficiency). That upgrade will get rid of the gritty treble problem that happens during loud playback (excessive full range cone movement).
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