Mercury alert:
Recent news that Ryan C. Inman of Hot Glass Audio is suing just about everyone connected with tube sales for $75,000 each for mercury poisoning. Even Ebay. The suit even lists the 6BQ5 as containing mercury. Some surplus and tube distributors are threatened with extinction from this suit.
Lawsuit filing:
http://www.cascadesurplus.com/lawsuit/Inman_V_Technicolor_Et_Al.pdf
http://www.cascadesurplus.com/lawsuit/
The suit claims he had no exposure to mercury anywhere else but from purchased tubes. The Hot Glass Audio site lists all kinds of tube equipment they repair.
Recent news that Ryan C. Inman of Hot Glass Audio is suing just about everyone connected with tube sales for $75,000 each for mercury poisoning. Even Ebay. The suit even lists the 6BQ5 as containing mercury. Some surplus and tube distributors are threatened with extinction from this suit.
Lawsuit filing:
http://www.cascadesurplus.com/lawsuit/Inman_V_Technicolor_Et_Al.pdf
http://www.cascadesurplus.com/lawsuit/
The suit claims he had no exposure to mercury anywhere else but from purchased tubes. The Hot Glass Audio site lists all kinds of tube equipment they repair.
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There is a long discussion about this law suite on Audio Karma (Mercury poisoning from rectifier tubes lawsuit - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums). The general consensus is that it's a frivolous lawsuit that can be beaten, but filed in hopes that the deep pockets will just pay to make it disappear rather then fight it. Also, it seems, some defendants have been excused because they are not manufactures. See page 7 of the Audio Karma link for a nice summary by a member lawyer.
Hype?
What is all the fear of mercury? Hype?
It was only a couple of years ago the state of California said no new mercury bulb thermostats. How about all the glass fever thermometers still lying around? What about the amalgam fillings we all have in out teeth? What about green sustainable compact fluorescent lamp we read by?
DT
What is all the fear of mercury? Hype?
It was only a couple of years ago the state of California said no new mercury bulb thermostats. How about all the glass fever thermometers still lying around? What about the amalgam fillings we all have in out teeth? What about green sustainable compact fluorescent lamp we read by?
DT
Absolutely agreed CFD bulbs must banned instead of incandescent ones. However their is a lot BS floating around that makes some companies make profit while cheating at the expenses of plain consumers (incandescent bulbs, diesel engines etc).
The problem with mercury is it vaporises very well even at a room temperature so there is no difference whether a powered mercury rectifier was broken or mercury thermostat. More mercury spilled around worth the impact of contamination in long term perspective.
No mercury containing appliances should be used inside living spaces CFD bulbs first of all as they very fragile and most prone to be braked.
But my point regarding amps implementations. Solid state Schottky like Cree SiC especially is much more preferable for a power rectifier. Even if tubes have some technical benefits while being used as a linear regulator (BW, low input capacitance) tubes no good for power switching tasks like on-off applications at all.
Better spend more attention to power chokes instead than using awkward mercury tubes.
quote:
MV rectifiers need to be preheated before the high voltage is applied. Allow up to 1 min with just the filament voltage until the mercury is vaporized. Then apply HV.
Well, someone should have told tube tester manufacturers about that. My tube tester uses a #83 rectifier and doesn't allow the tube to heat up prior to applying the B+. It was built in the 60's and is still running with the original rectifier tube.
MV rectifiers need to be preheated before the high voltage is applied. Allow up to 1 min with just the filament voltage until the mercury is vaporized. Then apply HV.
Well, someone should have told tube tester manufacturers about that. My tube tester uses a #83 rectifier and doesn't allow the tube to heat up prior to applying the B+. It was built in the 60's and is still running with the original rectifier tube.
Just try that with an 866 at 1kV and you'll know why..
(Actually don't!) I have a Hickok 539B with an 83 rectifier in it as well, from new, but the voltages used are comparatively low. I usually turn the tester on, configure for the tube I'm going to test, and then plug it in, by the time any appreciable current flows the 83 has warmed up sufficiently..Other than that 83 I have no MV rectifiers nor vintage PIO caps bathed in PCBs in my house. I figure there are already enough potential toxins in a 100+ yr old house without adding these.
I suspect he was just one of the guys working there, they seem to be a going concern as far as I can tell.
I have a little difficulty figuring out how he got mercury poisoning restoring tube gear unless he broke a few operating MV rectifiers, and hung around to breath the condensing vapors. There are other potential sources, for a significant period of time in the early 1970s TUNA was considered unsafe for human consumption here in the USA, and other species of fish such as swordfish are also known to be rather high in mercury content. IIRC there were documented cases of mercury poisoning in those days apparently from eating (relatively) large quantities of certain types of fish.. (I have not done any research to back this up so take it as only anecdotal.) Wikipedia while hardly definitive does have some interesting material on this subject: Mercury poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tuna, apparently it does not take that much: http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/mercury-poisoning-something-fishy-about-too-much-tuna
No more than one to two 6oz (170gms) cans a week is considered safe depending on what type of tuna is being consumed.
Fun link..
MAD as a hatter...
Mad as a hatter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alice in Wonderland...and now the mad tube builder...
Regards
M. Gregg
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What else is in there?
What else is in there?
A couple of years ago I came across a MSDS for 5670 tubes, if I recall correctly it was GE. A MSDS is a Material Safety Data Sheet that is written for lawyers for lawyers that lists the materials contained and their health and or fire hazards. It looks like this thing with mercury vapor tubes bridges the gap between items manufactured 60 years ago and today where we send our old PCB’s to China be burned/recycled.
What else is in there coating the getters and cathodes? Just a couple of months ago I bought 6 pounds of surplus lead containing solder likely just enough to last until my brain turns to curdled tofu.
Please save me from myself and WWII technology.
DT
What else is in there?
A couple of years ago I came across a MSDS for 5670 tubes, if I recall correctly it was GE. A MSDS is a Material Safety Data Sheet that is written for lawyers for lawyers that lists the materials contained and their health and or fire hazards. It looks like this thing with mercury vapor tubes bridges the gap between items manufactured 60 years ago and today where we send our old PCB’s to China be burned/recycled.
What else is in there coating the getters and cathodes? Just a couple of months ago I bought 6 pounds of surplus lead containing solder likely just enough to last until my brain turns to curdled tofu.
Please save me from myself and WWII technology.
DT
In my opinion this business of a little bit of mercury exposure is being blown way out of proportion. When I was a little kid, I played with it. I put my fingers in it. I put dimes in it to make them nice and shinny. I collected the stuff by taking apart mercury relays that I was given. But this was only for a short time. Then in grade school, I remember our science teacher heating mercury over a Bunsen burner in an open test tube making it transform into a red powder, (Mercury oxide) and then back again to that shinny liquid. And I remember seeing vapor leaving the test tube. (Poor Mr. Davenport 
?)
As an adult I've been around hundreds of MV rectifiers. And a couple of them did get cracked and broken. This was out of doors and that tiny amount of mercury evaporates rapidly and dissipates away in the breeze to virtually nothing. I also still have some mercury amalgam fillings in my teeth. I've been eating tuna all my life. Still do. Sushi and swordfish too. And I have a bottle of mercury (well sealed) in my basement shop that's been there for many years. Also long laboratory style thermometers in a draw that are surely mercury filled. Both of my rack mounted power tube testers use mercury switches. Oh yea, my house thermostat has a big glob of mercury in it too.
Anyway, I'm pushing 70 and have no ill affects so far.
I also use aromatic hydrocarbon solvents often indoors at the q-tip level. And I've been smelling solder smoke, from soldering, since I was a teenager. And PCB's, oye vey, I've taken apart my share of "condensers" as a kid. So what!
?)As an adult I've been around hundreds of MV rectifiers. And a couple of them did get cracked and broken. This was out of doors and that tiny amount of mercury evaporates rapidly and dissipates away in the breeze to virtually nothing. I also still have some mercury amalgam fillings in my teeth. I've been eating tuna all my life. Still do. Sushi and swordfish too. And I have a bottle of mercury (well sealed) in my basement shop that's been there for many years. Also long laboratory style thermometers in a draw that are surely mercury filled. Both of my rack mounted power tube testers use mercury switches. Oh yea, my house thermostat has a big glob of mercury in it too.
Anyway, I'm pushing 70 and have no ill affects so far.
I also use aromatic hydrocarbon solvents often indoors at the q-tip level. And I've been smelling solder smoke, from soldering, since I was a teenager. And PCB's, oye vey, I've taken apart my share of "condensers" as a kid. So what!
I suspect wasting time on this site may be a sign of mental confusion. I know it is for me! I didn't play with as much mercury as you did, but it was quite common.
The original example was "Mad as a hatter" for good reason, but those were quite high levels. More modern is painters used to be quite often drunks, for a similar work exposure cause.
Now the modern example of why mercury is banned is Minimata Disease a horrible example. Minamata disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So a if you are even modestly careful.... You can play with one, but you just might find they really are noisy rectifiers and some folks like that. If you do just try some old voltage regulator tubes for a similar effect.
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"Minamata disease".....
Wow! Clearly the "Fukushima" of negligence cases. 36 years of insideous poisoning of the whole seaside population while trying to cover it up for profit.
The populace and fish and animals... clearly suffered massive and chronic mercury dosing there, 1000+ ppm internal levels, bay water killed the fish in just days. Hard to see how some rectifier tubes could cause that level of exposure though. One would have to use the broken rectifier tubes for martini glasses to get that level of exposure. San Francisco bay has very high mercury contamination sediments from the gold rush days, and I haven't heard of them all going crazy...so far...
Wow! Clearly the "Fukushima" of negligence cases. 36 years of insideous poisoning of the whole seaside population while trying to cover it up for profit.
The populace and fish and animals... clearly suffered massive and chronic mercury dosing there, 1000+ ppm internal levels, bay water killed the fish in just days. Hard to see how some rectifier tubes could cause that level of exposure though. One would have to use the broken rectifier tubes for martini glasses to get that level of exposure. San Francisco bay has very high mercury contamination sediments from the gold rush days, and I haven't heard of them all going crazy...so far...
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In my opinion this business of a little bit of mercury exposure is being blown way out of proportion. When I was a little kid, I played with it. I put my fingers in it. I put dimes in it to make them nice and shinny. I collected the stuff by taking apart mercury relays that I was given. But this was only for a short time. Then in grade school, I remember our science teacher heating mercury over a Bunsen burner in an open test tube making it transform into a red powder, (Mercury oxide) and then back again to that shinny liquid. And I remember seeing vapor leaving the test tube. (Poor Mr. Davenport
As an adult I've been around hundreds of MV rectifiers. And a couple of them did get cracked and broken. This was out of doors and that tiny amount of mercury evaporates rapidly and dissipates away in the breeze to virtually nothing. I also still have some mercury amalgam fillings in my teeth. I've been eating tuna all my life. Still do. Sushi and swordfish too. And I have a bottle of mercury (well sealed) in my basement shop that's been there for many years. Also long laboratory style thermometers in a draw that are surely mercury filled. Both of my rack mounted power tube testers use mercury switches. Oh yea, my house thermostat has a big glob of mercury in it too.
Anyway, I'm pushing 70 and have no ill affects so far.
I also use aromatic hydrocarbon solvents often indoors at the q-tip level. And I've been smelling solder smoke, from soldering, since I was a teenager. And PCB's, oye vey, I've taken apart my share of "condensers" as a kid. So what!
I tend to agree. I sorta' like mine. The 866a's are going into a pretty massive choke and seem quiet to me. I've put decoupling caps and some ferrite forms on the HT leads. I decided it would easier to build a stiff choke input supply than trying to regulate 500+ volts.
Using mercury vapor (MV) rectifiers
Can any of you ladies or gentlemen, direct me to some reliable design articles for information on hash and RF filters for MV rectifiers?
I would like to know the value of these components, the frequencies they are attenuating, or where to get them and anything that might be available on the Internet about the objectionable noise, both audio and RF noise, that MV rectifiers generate while operating. I am particularly interested in 866A and 872A rectifiers. Thanks in advance. WA4QGA
Can any of you ladies or gentlemen, direct me to some reliable design articles for information on hash and RF filters for MV rectifiers?
I would like to know the value of these components, the frequencies they are attenuating, or where to get them and anything that might be available on the Internet about the objectionable noise, both audio and RF noise, that MV rectifiers generate while operating. I am particularly interested in 866A and 872A rectifiers. Thanks in advance. WA4QGA
I found this - IET Digital Library: Some considerations in the design of hot-cathode mercury-vapour rectifier circuits on Google Scholar, there's more here - Google Scholar
Google Scholar is a good source of articles and gets better results than a normal search engine.
Hope that helps, Andy.
Google Scholar is a good source of articles and gets better results than a normal search engine.
Hope that helps, Andy.
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