Dear diyAudio forum,
I'm reading about the Martion Orgon bass and trying to figure out what it is. In an interview the founder says he took inspiration from the bass section of the Klipschorn. Looking at the drawing he provides on his website his design is more simplified, which I think is interesting. He also uses an 18" driver instead of a 15".
The drawing doesn't reveal much.
What do you think the Basshorn actually consists of?
And... what is the purpose of it in this design?
I have attached the Martion drawing, a view of the Martion bass cabinet, and the Klipschorn drawings he based the design on.
Thank you,
Simon
I'm reading about the Martion Orgon bass and trying to figure out what it is. In an interview the founder says he took inspiration from the bass section of the Klipschorn. Looking at the drawing he provides on his website his design is more simplified, which I think is interesting. He also uses an 18" driver instead of a 15".
The drawing doesn't reveal much.
What do you think the Basshorn actually consists of?
And... what is the purpose of it in this design?
I have attached the Martion drawing, a view of the Martion bass cabinet, and the Klipschorn drawings he based the design on.
Thank you,
Simon
Attachments
looks like a K-horn to me other than not employing "ramps" for the first expansion section. EV and Ben Drisko had 18" driver versions of the K-horn.
I am curious about their low frequency speaker with the Karlson style aperture.
http://martion.de/wp-content/gallery/galerie/sonder-einhorn.png
Gallery | Martion
The Orgon seems to have a slow first expansion off the splitter done like in the Fane W horn below. It may have EQ below cutoff (?)
I am curious about their low frequency speaker with the Karlson style aperture.
http://martion.de/wp-content/gallery/galerie/sonder-einhorn.png
Gallery | Martion
The Orgon seems to have a slow first expansion off the splitter done like in the Fane W horn below. It may have EQ below cutoff (?)
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Without the ramping, what is the point of the actual horn? Is it simply a construction to mount the driver inside the cabinet, in this case with the chain (kette) and bult (bolzen)?
I don't really see how it's a horn. It's not backloaded since it's a closed enclosure, right?
I don't really see how it's a horn. It's not backloaded since it's a closed enclosure, right?
Similar to the Klipsch.
The horn is in front of the cone; the 2 walls where the speaker is adiacent, they make the mouth of the horn much larger. The chain and the bult are for correct distancing from the walls, I guess
The horn is in front of the cone; the 2 walls where the speaker is adiacent, they make the mouth of the horn much larger. The chain and the bult are for correct distancing from the walls, I guess
I don't have access to hornresp these days to see what would happen with no expansion - or a very slow expansion in the first section (which that drawing may indicate). I would guess the designer knows what he's doing to bring a high end product to market.
When the soundwave get distorted, and a horn like this transforms the original wave by bending it many times ( not that the HF horn doesn't do that, it still alters the original "bubble"), there's no high-end nor hi-fi.
I will try my hand at some version of this construction.
Do you have an 18" driver to recommend? If I had endless resources for the driver, how could I get as close as possible to the Orgon bass? What do you think he uses?
I'm guessing the woofer in the picture is what he uses...
Do you have an 18" driver to recommend? If I had endless resources for the driver, how could I get as close as possible to the Orgon bass? What do you think he uses?
I'm guessing the woofer in the picture is what he uses...
Attachments
The drawing says "side view", so it is basically a K-horn on its side instead of upright position - it does not match the photo.
the picture imo = just a K-horn cut down the middle with a different first section.
look at the Electro Voice "Patrician IV" for an 18" driver K-thorn. (oops - thought the Georgian IV was an 18" KHORN)
http://mypicsonline.net/archive/arc.../Speakers/DIY Manuals/Patrician IV Part 1.pdf
look at the Electro Voice "Patrician IV" for an 18" driver K-thorn. (oops - thought the Georgian IV was an 18" KHORN)
http://mypicsonline.net/archive/arc.../Speakers/DIY Manuals/Patrician IV Part 1.pdf
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Patrician IV - btw., that Orgon may include the ramps - difficult to tell from just that one cutaway diagram.
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In first post, sure looks like a Klipschorn, mostly as far as I can see. Klipschorn bass is truly the best room-filling bass there is, FR details notwithstanding*. But no way to get low enough freq to meet the expectations of audiophiles even 20 yrs ago.... unless you add a sub south of the horn. (A buddy at Bell Labs had such a sub under his horns in 1967 - luckily we had transistors back then so he could fashion an active crossover).
But the photo is totally bonkers and shows basic ignorance of horn. The room walls have to be horn walls and next to a window is not**. Also, you have to have a top on top (esp sealed to the walls as I did it) or else you evaporate the function of the final crucial horn section.
*those FR ripples are trivial compared to the room modes and I suspect the Klipschorn will deliver a better FR to ears than point source subs in real rooms.
** if you don't have a good solid corner, don't build it - but the corner can be quite a distance from main speakers provided sharp slope XO and low distortion speakers above and below
But the photo is totally bonkers and shows basic ignorance of horn. The room walls have to be horn walls and next to a window is not**. Also, you have to have a top on top (esp sealed to the walls as I did it) or else you evaporate the function of the final crucial horn section.
*those FR ripples are trivial compared to the room modes and I suspect the Klipschorn will deliver a better FR to ears than point source subs in real rooms.
** if you don't have a good solid corner, don't build it - but the corner can be quite a distance from main speakers provided sharp slope XO and low distortion speakers above and below
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"this" is the Martion LF cabinet which I mentioned as interesting. It has a woofer on either side. Is it a closed box on the rear and actively EQ-ed ?
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At least yours played to 35hz compared to the normal 50hz audiophile "bass."
Basically, a "bass horn" is a BP4 or BP6 with positive flare port(s) that play to 40hz.
A "sub horn" is the same as above, but plays to 20-30hz.
The lowest key on a piano is 27.5hz.
if you want an 18" version of the Klipschorn, then take a hornresp model and scale starting at 1.2X. Play with reducing back chamber volume to see tradeoff of excursion below cutoff vs excursion.
I'd imagine Eminence's Sigma18 would be functional as would be a few other pro 18" woofers.
University's "Classic" models much like the Khorn but is already huge. Scaled 1.2x for an 18" speaker it would be about 48" x 36" x 29".
I think I once asked PWK in a letter about an 18" version of the Khorn and he basically didn't think it would have any advantages. That said, there was the EV Patrician IV and Ben Drisko's 18 inch "Driskhorn" (which had differening flare rates)
I'd imagine Eminence's Sigma18 would be functional as would be a few other pro 18" woofers.
University's "Classic" models much like the Khorn but is already huge. Scaled 1.2x for an 18" speaker it would be about 48" x 36" x 29".
I think I once asked PWK in a letter about an 18" version of the Khorn and he basically didn't think it would have any advantages. That said, there was the EV Patrician IV and Ben Drisko's 18 inch "Driskhorn" (which had differening flare rates)