Member
Joined 2003
Just to throw another driver into the mix for fun, how about the Bully subwoofer currently on sale at PE? It looks like it could be a high quality unit, but I have never heard of this Bully company. At $329 for a 15" it sure puts that 10" all show no go driver to shame. It's still pretty expensive though.
The bully driver does appear to be very good quality, with its low inductance and shorting ring. However, I think it can be matched at a lower price. The cast basket is a strange design, from a structural point of view it doesn't look like a smart or cost effective design - look at the horizontal part of the spokes - this looks like a weak point. In contrast look at the spokes on dcibels avatar driver, like those more commonly used in AE speakers drivers and Adire and Ascendant audio drivers - these are standard cast basket designs mass produced and are IMO a better design for a rigid basket. The bully spokes structurally are a lot like a beam used on its side, which is never done since it would have to be oversized to compensate.
For the price of that driver you could get a driver with both more output and better performance.
For the price of that driver you could get a driver with both more output and better performance.
Dburc59866 said:
They look lik e acopy of a sub that Lanzar/Z-Audio had like 12 years agofor car audio. They never took off but they did look cool.
Those P audio drivers are quite interesting, although not close to appropriate for HT. Their mix of parameters makes them appear perhaps suitable for a short midbass horn.
They have managed to keep the inductance low and the power handling quite decent. The extended pole piece and heatsinking probably helps this, while also reducing distortion.
Not sure if it's all worth it, however. Doesn't look like a cost effective approach ...
They have managed to keep the inductance low and the power handling quite decent. The extended pole piece and heatsinking probably helps this, while also reducing distortion.
Not sure if it's all worth it, however. Doesn't look like a cost effective approach ...
Member
Joined 2003
You look like you are UK based so you may not want to import from US because you will have to a pay a lot of delivery, customs duty, tax and other handling charges.
Plus any retuns due to faulty equipment or user problems/abuse will cost extra £££.
You will be going up against www.bkelec.com and www.iplacoustics.co.uk which provide some pretty decent home subwoofers already and that is not including all the main stream brands which seem to be getting better these days.
The advantages to using a plate amp is loads of flexability, ajustable crossover and phase are particulary usefull.
Fixed crossover levels comming out of a receiver/processor subwoofer out may be wrong/set way to high from some installs.
Are you actually experienced in actually building and designing decent subwoofers?
Do you understand terms and issues like Qtc, group delay, vent noise, driver mechanical and thermal power handling etc?
I really don't want to come across as rude, I am trying to help but there is lots of money to be wasted if you don't exactly know what you are doing.
Plus any retuns due to faulty equipment or user problems/abuse will cost extra £££.
You will be going up against www.bkelec.com and www.iplacoustics.co.uk which provide some pretty decent home subwoofers already and that is not including all the main stream brands which seem to be getting better these days.
The advantages to using a plate amp is loads of flexability, ajustable crossover and phase are particulary usefull.
Fixed crossover levels comming out of a receiver/processor subwoofer out may be wrong/set way to high from some installs.
Are you actually experienced in actually building and designing decent subwoofers?
Do you understand terms and issues like Qtc, group delay, vent noise, driver mechanical and thermal power handling etc?
I really don't want to come across as rude, I am trying to help but there is lots of money to be wasted if you don't exactly know what you are doing.
Sorry i've obviously given completely the wrong impression with my first post, i dont want to sell these commerically i just want to build a few subs and sell them to family or friends or ne one else intersted just to get some money and/or finance more projects so this is just a hobby.
I just wanted to take a different approach this time and not just build a sub or speaker that i either want or just for fun, i wanted to see what people want and from the general wants make a sub to de highest quality i can....guess i could have just asked for suggestions on what to make probably been the simpler way.
With Ref to the plate amp. I was looking at adding all the filter controls u mentioned to the external D-class i was looking at.
I just wanted to take a different approach this time and not just build a sub or speaker that i either want or just for fun, i wanted to see what people want and from the general wants make a sub to de highest quality i can....guess i could have just asked for suggestions on what to make probably been the simpler way.
With Ref to the plate amp. I was looking at adding all the filter controls u mentioned to the external D-class i was looking at.
bigger is better
I don't care if it looks like I have a vw bug parked in my basement, i want my neighbors several hundred yards away to think it's thundering. I want it powered so that i can plug in a mono rca jack and shake the house. I want fully variable phase control and gain control, and that's about it.
I don't care if it looks like I have a vw bug parked in my basement, i want my neighbors several hundred yards away to think it's thundering. I want it powered so that i can plug in a mono rca jack and shake the house. I want fully variable phase control and gain control, and that's about it.
Konnichiwa,
Here is what I require from a Sub.
It needs to keep pace in terms of SPL with a main system capable of ~ 115db/1m SPL with modest levels of distortion (< 5% THD). It must provide good subjective speed (something I find invariably observable with systems where the drivers cone barely moves).
It needs to be easy to place and easy to integrate with any numbers of main speakers. Ideally the process of attaining a flat response and good integration between sub and main system would be automated.
My wife merely requires it to be near invisible.
So, make a very small sub that can play very loud without producing large cone excursions and which "dials in" itself in such a way that the resultant combined response between supported main speaker and subwoofer is substantially well balanced and flat between 20Hz & 200Hz, at the listening position.
I could think of a few approaches that might be feasible, but for arguments sake, something like a 15" cube standing on it's corner with 6pcs square & flat diaphragm 12" woofer drivers matched in colour (so it does not scream "Subwoofer" at my wife) and a massive magnets, or even a servo-motor (talk to Thomas Danley the Servodrive designer) and suitable gear/lever system system to move these should make for plenty of SPL with modest excursion, the rest is all electronic, preferably DSP based.
Oh yes, keep it below 500 Pounds retail please.
An alternative would be to do something extreme, like a 24" pro audio woofer based dipole with maybe another 24" added as sealed device, equalise both flat and give them enough power and play with relative levels and you have steerable directivity from monopole over cardiode and hypercardiode to dipole, Okay, so the sub would have to be 4' + tall and at least 2' deep and wide, but so what?
Sayonara
Dburc59866 said:
Here is what I require from a Sub.
It needs to keep pace in terms of SPL with a main system capable of ~ 115db/1m SPL with modest levels of distortion (< 5% THD). It must provide good subjective speed (something I find invariably observable with systems where the drivers cone barely moves).
It needs to be easy to place and easy to integrate with any numbers of main speakers. Ideally the process of attaining a flat response and good integration between sub and main system would be automated.
My wife merely requires it to be near invisible.
So, make a very small sub that can play very loud without producing large cone excursions and which "dials in" itself in such a way that the resultant combined response between supported main speaker and subwoofer is substantially well balanced and flat between 20Hz & 200Hz, at the listening position.
I could think of a few approaches that might be feasible, but for arguments sake, something like a 15" cube standing on it's corner with 6pcs square & flat diaphragm 12" woofer drivers matched in colour (so it does not scream "Subwoofer" at my wife) and a massive magnets, or even a servo-motor (talk to Thomas Danley the Servodrive designer) and suitable gear/lever system system to move these should make for plenty of SPL with modest excursion, the rest is all electronic, preferably DSP based.
Oh yes, keep it below 500 Pounds retail please.
An alternative would be to do something extreme, like a 24" pro audio woofer based dipole with maybe another 24" added as sealed device, equalise both flat and give them enough power and play with relative levels and you have steerable directivity from monopole over cardiode and hypercardiode to dipole, Okay, so the sub would have to be 4' + tall and at least 2' deep and wide, but so what?
Sayonara
Maybe weight as well ?!? 😉
A further alternative to that approach would be the use of two closed-box ones and some electronc tricks in order to achieve directivity. It could even be done with two reflex cabinets, but I assume that you are not fond of these, right ? Meyersound is doing the latter with their professional directional "sub"-woofers.
Regards
Charles
Konnichiwa,
Yes, or even more than 2....
There is much you can do with steering directivity.
But the sheer simplicity of two huge woofers, minimal EQ and two level controls appeals to me no end, plud bragging rights, a pair of 2' woofers is DEFINITLY something to brag about.
Sayonara
phase_accurate said:
Yes, or even more than 2....
There is much you can do with steering directivity.
But the sheer simplicity of two huge woofers, minimal EQ and two level controls appeals to me no end, plud bragging rights, a pair of 2' woofers is DEFINITLY something to brag about.
Sayonara
Personal bass
Regarding directionality, would this help keep the neibors happy in a real world situation?
Wow, a beam of bass only to the listening position. Personal bass without headphones !
I wonder how much it could help.
Regarding directionality, would this help keep the neibors happy in a real world situation?
Wow, a beam of bass only to the listening position. Personal bass without headphones !
I wonder how much it could help.
Re: Personal bass
That's exactly what I'm about to attempt in my office conversion to office/HT/listening room. My longitudinal room mode is at 28hz. I have a concrete wall at the back and will use extreme layered absorption on the front wall, since it joins to the house. My OB line array mains will go down to 28hz where my quasi-dipole sub pair will take over only for HT. The subs will be 2 similarly tuned BR's or BP's, one at the front under the screen and one in coffee table form immediately in front of the listening position. The front sub will be connected out of phase. Each will have a pair of side firing drivers and ports to minimize mechanical vibration and widen the prime listening area. The separation distance will be approximately 4m, so on axis I won't start to get dipole cancellation until about 15hz and 6db/octave from there will be inconsequential. Off axis, however, should get the benefits of dipole cancellation and the door will be almost centered in the dipole null.
The net 0 output in the room should drastically reduce what bass tries to escape the room, even with extreme output at the listening position. Entering the room and walking to the seating area with a LF test tone should be an interesting effect.
I haven't been able to pick any big holes in my plan, so if you see one, please let me know. Construction starts this week.
Coolin said:
That's exactly what I'm about to attempt in my office conversion to office/HT/listening room. My longitudinal room mode is at 28hz. I have a concrete wall at the back and will use extreme layered absorption on the front wall, since it joins to the house. My OB line array mains will go down to 28hz where my quasi-dipole sub pair will take over only for HT. The subs will be 2 similarly tuned BR's or BP's, one at the front under the screen and one in coffee table form immediately in front of the listening position. The front sub will be connected out of phase. Each will have a pair of side firing drivers and ports to minimize mechanical vibration and widen the prime listening area. The separation distance will be approximately 4m, so on axis I won't start to get dipole cancellation until about 15hz and 6db/octave from there will be inconsequential. Off axis, however, should get the benefits of dipole cancellation and the door will be almost centered in the dipole null.
The net 0 output in the room should drastically reduce what bass tries to escape the room, even with extreme output at the listening position. Entering the room and walking to the seating area with a LF test tone should be an interesting effect.
I haven't been able to pick any big holes in my plan, so if you see one, please let me know. Construction starts this week.
If driven properly you could not only achieve the usual dipole radiation characteristic but also a cardioid pattern.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
Most of you probably know already but the details are now up on the O audio website for the TC+ drivers.
http://www.oaudio.com/TC2_PLUS.html
http://www.oaudio.com/TC2_PLUS.html
John,
If your only doing this below 28 Hz there wont be much benifit to this aproach will there? This is pretty low !
If possible try this up higher as well.
Also arent sealed subes more suitable? (more wideband than a resonating port)
Anyway let us know how well it works !
If your only doing this below 28 Hz there wont be much benifit to this aproach will there? This is pretty low !
If possible try this up higher as well.
Also arent sealed subes more suitable? (more wideband than a resonating port)
Anyway let us know how well it works !
Coolin said:
Coolin,
I'm OB above 28hz, so I have the sonic and room benefits where it counts. For music I won't use the XO and let the 8 12"s per side run as low as they'll go, so I won't need a sub for music. The subs are for HT duty only and sealed just doesn't make sense for the 10-28hz range. My main priority is to keep output, to the extent possible, in the room, and retain output potential greater than I will probably ever use. I really don't think that sonic purity matters much down so low and we're really only talking about stuff like the physical impact from explosions, trains rumbling by, dinosaur footsteps, etc. Plus, it's a perfect fit for me to use a bunch on woofers and subs that have been collecting dust after some projects fell through.
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