---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About ESR you are wrong as BC COMPONENTS capacitors we use have an ESR of 35 for a 10 000MF 63V capacitor and an ESR of 70 for a 4700MF 100V capacitor (I hope you will agree that it is a quality manufacturer)!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In experience it does happen that ESR is higher for higher voltages (geometry differences etc?) but the most common by far is that it gets lower with increased voltages. As Eric pointed out, I would say the rule for a given manufacturer for the same type and capacitance is that the ESR is lower for the higher voltage rated cap. That you get 70 mOhm for a 4.700uF/100V and 35 mOhm for 10.000uF/63V does not really imply that it is not true but rather the opposite as the ESR often more than doubles when the capacity is half which supports the statement Eric made. The caps you mention are not the same capacitance = comparison not valid. Give it a little thought and I would say you proved the opposite of what you stated agreeing with Eric...
/UrSv
About ESR you are wrong as BC COMPONENTS capacitors we use have an ESR of 35 for a 10 000MF 63V capacitor and an ESR of 70 for a 4700MF 100V capacitor (I hope you will agree that it is a quality manufacturer)!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In experience it does happen that ESR is higher for higher voltages (geometry differences etc?) but the most common by far is that it gets lower with increased voltages. As Eric pointed out, I would say the rule for a given manufacturer for the same type and capacitance is that the ESR is lower for the higher voltage rated cap. That you get 70 mOhm for a 4.700uF/100V and 35 mOhm for 10.000uF/63V does not really imply that it is not true but rather the opposite as the ESR often more than doubles when the capacity is half which supports the statement Eric made. The caps you mention are not the same capacitance = comparison not valid. Give it a little thought and I would say you proved the opposite of what you stated agreeing with Eric...
/UrSv
PSS AUDIO,
If you decide to expose your work and business to the public, you have to swallow feedback what ever it is, maybe you could hand straight insults and accusations to your lawyer. In my opinionm Iohk did not insult you, he did not perhaps use the nicest words to express his reservation; However, that you called him a liar or a fool in return should qualify for sin bin without further negotiation.
Your posts provoked several others to respond in a way also close to qualifying for sin bin. We moderators have the habit of sending all noise makers to the sin bin; however, if we spot someone who is the cause of flames, we will quite happily hold that person responsible for all further violations and the sin bin sentence will grow according. We have very long memories, we do not forget past offences and we are happy to hold these against an individual at any time in the future. Looking mighty sad for you isn't it.
Next, soliciting is not welcome here, take your business elsewhere. Having your own website url in the signature is ok, but that is all. We have quite a number of members selling audio stuff to earn a living and nevertheless nicely merging into our community and not upsetting anyone. Why cant you do so, too?!
We have an obligation to the beginners who do not have the experience to sort the wheat from the chaff. There are a number of companies and individuals who give away there intellectual property just like you do and many of the other products are far superior (in the cost no object - ultimate audio quality arena) to your offering so please do not expect to be highly praised for what you have done.
Your attitude is completely unacceptable here and there is no valid excuse under the sun to justify it.
I think you owe lohk a public apology. And while we are on the topic, you owe the other members complaining about your spamming and soliciting a public apology, too. Finally, you owe it to the community to read our rules and moderator statement before you post again.
Please consider this an official warning. Failure to comply with the above will be swiftly met with a lengthy sin bin sentence.
Regards,
AudioFreak
diyAudio Moderator.
If you decide to expose your work and business to the public, you have to swallow feedback what ever it is, maybe you could hand straight insults and accusations to your lawyer. In my opinionm Iohk did not insult you, he did not perhaps use the nicest words to express his reservation; However, that you called him a liar or a fool in return should qualify for sin bin without further negotiation.
Your posts provoked several others to respond in a way also close to qualifying for sin bin. We moderators have the habit of sending all noise makers to the sin bin; however, if we spot someone who is the cause of flames, we will quite happily hold that person responsible for all further violations and the sin bin sentence will grow according. We have very long memories, we do not forget past offences and we are happy to hold these against an individual at any time in the future. Looking mighty sad for you isn't it.
Next, soliciting is not welcome here, take your business elsewhere. Having your own website url in the signature is ok, but that is all. We have quite a number of members selling audio stuff to earn a living and nevertheless nicely merging into our community and not upsetting anyone. Why cant you do so, too?!
We have an obligation to the beginners who do not have the experience to sort the wheat from the chaff. There are a number of companies and individuals who give away there intellectual property just like you do and many of the other products are far superior (in the cost no object - ultimate audio quality arena) to your offering so please do not expect to be highly praised for what you have done.
Your attitude is completely unacceptable here and there is no valid excuse under the sun to justify it.
I think you owe lohk a public apology. And while we are on the topic, you owe the other members complaining about your spamming and soliciting a public apology, too. Finally, you owe it to the community to read our rules and moderator statement before you post again.
Please consider this an official warning. Failure to comply with the above will be swiftly met with a lengthy sin bin sentence.
Regards,
AudioFreak
diyAudio Moderator.
Open up the sin-bin door, I'm coming in...
P.S. You said to JasonL,
"Do you have a problem with your keyboard or don’t you know how to write or speak any intelligible language?"
Maybe you have the problem. Your first 8 words should have been "Are you a fool OR just a liar?" Go back to highschool.
The first 8 words posted on DIYAudio by PiSSAUDIO. Nice guy. Your attitude stinks and your amps don't look so hot, either. I don't care whether it is true or not, but I am going to tell everyone I meet that your amps sound awful and are of lousy quality. This is DIY. Nobody here wants to buy your crappy amps anyway. So go home.PSS AUDIO said:
P.S. You said to JasonL,
"Do you have a problem with your keyboard or don’t you know how to write or speak any intelligible language?"
Maybe you have the problem. Your first 8 words should have been "Are you a fool OR just a liar?" Go back to highschool.
moderator speaking
seangoesbonk,
Let us assume in your favour that you saw that after you let your post go. So i do not trigger the trap door under your feet leading to sin bin right now, i leave that decision to AudioFreak, he may eat you raw, i will not interfere. 🙁
😡 This agressive talk has to stop. RIGHT NOW!! 😡 As you may have observed, one of us moderators already has taken care of the case. Please do not interfere with him, ok?
You are probably right with most of what you say and your caring for diyaudio is appreciated. But you are not right how you say it. Not ok. Have you read our rules? 🙁
All,
for the case you should feel upset by what your read by PSS AUDIO, i would like to invite you to ignore his posts. If you consider it as soliciting, simply do not give it a platform.
Observing or receiving offensive talk does not justify to shoot back. It does justify to call one of us moderators for help.
For that, we will supply a link "report this post to moderator" right beneath the "IP logged" link soon.
Until this has happened, we moderators expect you to use trusty old email for that.
But : No public shooting back to offenses, be it as victim or bystander . Has this been understood? 😡
dice45
(diyAudio moderator)
seangoesbonk,
Let us assume in your favour that you saw that after you let your post go. So i do not trigger the trap door under your feet leading to sin bin right now, i leave that decision to AudioFreak, he may eat you raw, i will not interfere. 🙁
😡 This agressive talk has to stop. RIGHT NOW!! 😡 As you may have observed, one of us moderators already has taken care of the case. Please do not interfere with him, ok?
You are probably right with most of what you say and your caring for diyaudio is appreciated. But you are not right how you say it. Not ok. Have you read our rules? 🙁
All,
for the case you should feel upset by what your read by PSS AUDIO, i would like to invite you to ignore his posts. If you consider it as soliciting, simply do not give it a platform.
Observing or receiving offensive talk does not justify to shoot back. It does justify to call one of us moderators for help.
For that, we will supply a link "report this post to moderator" right beneath the "IP logged" link soon.
Until this has happened, we moderators expect you to use trusty old email for that.
But : No public shooting back to offenses, be it as victim or bystander . Has this been understood? 😡
dice45
(diyAudio moderator)
Re: Re: Only 10% Secure ?
cut.............
PSS :
Is this 15% the actually the manufactures' tolerance on WV in which case you would be sometime at 15% below and sometimes 5% above the quoted working voltage. sounds a bit close to me!I suppose it doesn't matter too much for you because your transformers are loaded down by 15% or more, just a thought 😛
You are most probably OK with this, but just a little close for me if i know i was buying this gear with heavy sound reinforcement use in mind (relighablity is every thing, sound quality is nuthing!).
Yes it is very easy calculating 90% of 60V or 80V or 100V but it was not known at that time that you run these caps 10% below rated working volatge. A lot of caps in class A amps are 63V or higher even though they are running 35V rails due to constant high current people like to leave a very large margin . Stating the rail voltages on the schematics in the first place would save a hell of a lot of time and bother 🙄
I am very courious at your scheme of cooling the FETS (transistors?). You say you use metal only, i guess u mean TO3's. Have you done much research on this? Do you have heatsinks on the top of the TO3's as well as the bottom? I have thought about this once, but never got round to trying anything. It was also commented on this forum that metal or non-metal FETs can sound different (search 'new law' i think), but i suppose this is of secondary interest to you.
Twin bridges have been talked about before (use the search function) but did not know that it had such a huge effect, no wonder you could have light transformer cores, again i ask do you have much research or advice on this?
where are you transformers from?
I understand that some people have been doubting your designs but you must remember that most of us DIYers are into real home hifi stuff (class A's) and not PA/sound renforcement/musak type systems which is where I believe your market is at. Some (not all) of this pro sound research is useful for real HIFI as the technology will filter down, such as more efficent/soft bridges. One day class D will be acceptable in the listening room 😱
PSS AUDIO said:
cut.............
PSS :
Is this 15% the actually the manufactures' tolerance on WV in which case you would be sometime at 15% below and sometimes 5% above the quoted working voltage. sounds a bit close to me!I suppose it doesn't matter too much for you because your transformers are loaded down by 15% or more, just a thought 😛
You are most probably OK with this, but just a little close for me if i know i was buying this gear with heavy sound reinforcement use in mind (relighablity is every thing, sound quality is nuthing!).
Yes it is very easy calculating 90% of 60V or 80V or 100V but it was not known at that time that you run these caps 10% below rated working volatge. A lot of caps in class A amps are 63V or higher even though they are running 35V rails due to constant high current people like to leave a very large margin . Stating the rail voltages on the schematics in the first place would save a hell of a lot of time and bother 🙄
I am very courious at your scheme of cooling the FETS (transistors?). You say you use metal only, i guess u mean TO3's. Have you done much research on this? Do you have heatsinks on the top of the TO3's as well as the bottom? I have thought about this once, but never got round to trying anything. It was also commented on this forum that metal or non-metal FETs can sound different (search 'new law' i think), but i suppose this is of secondary interest to you.
Twin bridges have been talked about before (use the search function) but did not know that it had such a huge effect, no wonder you could have light transformer cores, again i ask do you have much research or advice on this?
where are you transformers from?
I understand that some people have been doubting your designs but you must remember that most of us DIYers are into real home hifi stuff (class A's) and not PA/sound renforcement/musak type systems which is where I believe your market is at. Some (not all) of this pro sound research is useful for real HIFI as the technology will filter down, such as more efficent/soft bridges. One day class D will be acceptable in the listening room 😱
LET RIGHT BE DONE!!
folks,
I am minded to suggest that Mr pss audio has been rather shabbily treated...most of those who accuse him of self-promotion would never dream of leveling the same criticism at Mr N. pass for providing info. on his designs...
This alas, is not the first time that unthinking ill-informed, and objectionable remarks have been made in this respect....rather sad methinks.....😕
folks,
I am minded to suggest that Mr pss audio has been rather shabbily treated...most of those who accuse him of self-promotion would never dream of leveling the same criticism at Mr N. pass for providing info. on his designs...
This alas, is not the first time that unthinking ill-informed, and objectionable remarks have been made in this respect....rather sad methinks.....😕
Eric,
You give yourself some answer to your questions!
About DC voltage: As one can see it is not a class A but an AB class schematic and it is not hand written on a note pad sheet.
It is true that in class A one uses 63V caps ran at 50% of their voltage capacity as those caps are always flown by a big “idle” current! In such a case to keep a long lifetime for those capacitors it is preferable not to use them close to their voltage limits.
This is untrue with AB amplifiers, that is why one can use it close to his voltage tolerance as everybody should know (unless using a 10 time more powerful transformer): when voltage is high, current is low; when current is high, voltage goes down!
Our transformers are manufactured by TOROID, a Swedish company (www.toroid.com).
I am deeply involved and interested in sound quality but I do not use any FET as I stick to bipolar transistors!
I use our unique cooling system since 5 years now, a lot of person were and are still surprised that we can use a so small and light heat sink, but when you get it at work, it works!
Since the first drawing, I made some modification and it will even be improved in the next weeks as we must pull from this heat sink (45x130x45 - U shape; 200 mm long and 4-5 mm thick) 1200 Watts under 4 ohms with a 120x120x38 mm regulated fan.
About the twin bridges, I can say that I pull this information from several French technical and hobbyist magazines and my experience is:
Before using round transformers I only used square ones, that we manufactured, with a single bridge and had a warm sound.
I always said that round transformers are giving a hard sound (see my article posted on our website about it).
When I went into slim amplifiers I tried some round transformers and had the most horrible sound I ever heard with an amplifier that I was used to listen at before with a square transformer.
I changed the single bridge for a twin bridge and I lost 90% of aggressively…
Is this enough to make up one’s mind about something?
I doubt class D will ever sound good and it is not because one amplifier is designed and engineered to work in pro system that it cannot work in a high end HIFI system!
That is what I am are working at since 2 years and I am about the goals: I often (one a month at least) do listening with high end sellers in HIFI and domestic systems, and the latest modification I made are closer to some of the very best home amplifier they sale and even better sometimes!
The latest modification is the use of a SANKEN transistor in the class A stage. And then suddenly, miracle…
I always said and thought that an amplifier is an amplifier and it can and must be used wherever he is (an amplifier dos not know where he is in fact as it’s just a piece of tool).
The only difference is reliability, but it has nothing to do with quality. An amplifier can be reliable and of quality.
That is the reason why I stick to AB class and non-complementary power transistors (NPN).
Best regards
Yuri D. GUTSATZ
www.pssaudio.com
Nota Bene : To one of you, the day you will be able to write five words in a foreign language without any typo error, then you will be allowed to suggest going back to school, not in high school I doubt you never went!
I also doubt that you can write more than a full sentence in French…
You give yourself some answer to your questions!
About DC voltage: As one can see it is not a class A but an AB class schematic and it is not hand written on a note pad sheet.
It is true that in class A one uses 63V caps ran at 50% of their voltage capacity as those caps are always flown by a big “idle” current! In such a case to keep a long lifetime for those capacitors it is preferable not to use them close to their voltage limits.
This is untrue with AB amplifiers, that is why one can use it close to his voltage tolerance as everybody should know (unless using a 10 time more powerful transformer): when voltage is high, current is low; when current is high, voltage goes down!
Our transformers are manufactured by TOROID, a Swedish company (www.toroid.com).
I am deeply involved and interested in sound quality but I do not use any FET as I stick to bipolar transistors!
I use our unique cooling system since 5 years now, a lot of person were and are still surprised that we can use a so small and light heat sink, but when you get it at work, it works!
Since the first drawing, I made some modification and it will even be improved in the next weeks as we must pull from this heat sink (45x130x45 - U shape; 200 mm long and 4-5 mm thick) 1200 Watts under 4 ohms with a 120x120x38 mm regulated fan.
About the twin bridges, I can say that I pull this information from several French technical and hobbyist magazines and my experience is:
Before using round transformers I only used square ones, that we manufactured, with a single bridge and had a warm sound.
I always said that round transformers are giving a hard sound (see my article posted on our website about it).
When I went into slim amplifiers I tried some round transformers and had the most horrible sound I ever heard with an amplifier that I was used to listen at before with a square transformer.
I changed the single bridge for a twin bridge and I lost 90% of aggressively…
Is this enough to make up one’s mind about something?
I doubt class D will ever sound good and it is not because one amplifier is designed and engineered to work in pro system that it cannot work in a high end HIFI system!
That is what I am are working at since 2 years and I am about the goals: I often (one a month at least) do listening with high end sellers in HIFI and domestic systems, and the latest modification I made are closer to some of the very best home amplifier they sale and even better sometimes!
The latest modification is the use of a SANKEN transistor in the class A stage. And then suddenly, miracle…
I always said and thought that an amplifier is an amplifier and it can and must be used wherever he is (an amplifier dos not know where he is in fact as it’s just a piece of tool).
The only difference is reliability, but it has nothing to do with quality. An amplifier can be reliable and of quality.
That is the reason why I stick to AB class and non-complementary power transistors (NPN).
Best regards
Yuri D. GUTSATZ
www.pssaudio.com
Nota Bene : To one of you, the day you will be able to write five words in a foreign language without any typo error, then you will be allowed to suggest going back to school, not in high school I doubt you never went!
I also doubt that you can write more than a full sentence in French…
Hi Yuri
Lets forget about some of the ill informed, and quite frankly ill-educated folks 🙄 that sometimes sully the dialog quality on this forum, and concetrate only on the technical issues....
I am particularly interested in your suggestion that a quasi complementary output stage may give better quality than a fully complementary implementation......how do you justify this?
regards,
michael in chigwell essex, UK😎
Lets forget about some of the ill informed, and quite frankly ill-educated folks 🙄 that sometimes sully the dialog quality on this forum, and concetrate only on the technical issues....
I am particularly interested in your suggestion that a quasi complementary output stage may give better quality than a fully complementary implementation......how do you justify this?
regards,
michael in chigwell essex, UK😎
Hi Michael,
Thank you for your support!
Its just logic, if I can say so, and symmetry too.
Less difference there will be in the push and the pull, better sound can be.
Have you ever saw an engine with one piston in aluminum and an other one in steel?
Have you ever seen one man pulling the row and a women doing the same?
Etc. …
Perhaps on the paper an NPN and a PNP are the same but it is on the paper, and once again numbers does not mean anything in audio (same for girls)!
As an NPN transistor and a PNP one cannot be the same; it is better having two NPN only as there is already the difference in the driver stage you cannot avoid!
I must be one of the very rare manufacturer using two NPN even if it is known by everybody, but everybody says: god how warm and punchy are your amplifiers at the bottom note and with a so low DF how can you manage having so little "moves" of bass speakers with so much strong ness...
Best regards
Yuri GUTSATZ Jr.
www.pssaudio.com
Thank you for your support!
Its just logic, if I can say so, and symmetry too.
Less difference there will be in the push and the pull, better sound can be.
Have you ever saw an engine with one piston in aluminum and an other one in steel?
Have you ever seen one man pulling the row and a women doing the same?
Etc. …
Perhaps on the paper an NPN and a PNP are the same but it is on the paper, and once again numbers does not mean anything in audio (same for girls)!
As an NPN transistor and a PNP one cannot be the same; it is better having two NPN only as there is already the difference in the driver stage you cannot avoid!
I must be one of the very rare manufacturer using two NPN even if it is known by everybody, but everybody says: god how warm and punchy are your amplifiers at the bottom note and with a so low DF how can you manage having so little "moves" of bass speakers with so much strong ness...
Best regards
Yuri GUTSATZ Jr.
www.pssaudio.com
...!!!
So, do you still atacking each other??
I come here this time to ask only one thing:
Yuri,
I have used 4 Sanken 2SC2922 - 2 in each side of the series 6 amplifier. The original uses 4 MJ15003.
It was done this weekend.
The question is if I rise the psu to about 100V and change the caps and some transistors - because of the voltage, do I need to make the calculations for the VAS stage, or it can handle the new voltage from the supply?
The goal is to double the power maintaining the stability.
Regards!
Pedro Martins
So, do you still atacking each other??
I come here this time to ask only one thing:
Yuri,
I have used 4 Sanken 2SC2922 - 2 in each side of the series 6 amplifier. The original uses 4 MJ15003.
It was done this weekend.
The question is if I rise the psu to about 100V and change the caps and some transistors - because of the voltage, do I need to make the calculations for the VAS stage, or it can handle the new voltage from the supply?
The goal is to double the power maintaining the stability.
Regards!
Pedro Martins
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