A box full of dirt, or magic rocks, or coal, or whatever...with one single wire connected to something cannot possibly do anything except possibly PICK-UP noise and add it to the system, or as others here have pointed out - snake oil.
There will always be gullible humans willing to throw their money at some wonderful "new thing" in that says it will deliver some kind of audio magic, in spite of the fact that actual magic would be the only way it could work...I'm not one of those humans.
Mike
There will always be gullible humans willing to throw their money at some wonderful "new thing" in that says it will deliver some kind of audio magic, in spite of the fact that actual magic would be the only way it could work...I'm not one of those humans.
Mike
This is the same ground as the signal ground in non-balanced connections. The mains grounding already is part of a ground loop and creating another grounding point does only complicate things further. The idea of the common grounding point would work beautifully if there was no mains grounding but would be against code in most countries.
Yep, they are going through your system in the seated lotus position, and if you listen very carefully you can hear them chant...Ohmmm, Ohmmm, Ohmmm...
Mike
Adding a 'ground box' to an existing system does not create a loop. This is because the 'ground box' is not a ground, but merely an isolated box of dirt with a wire coming out. So you either have a ground loop (via the mains) or you don't; the 'ground box' makes no difference.analog_sa said:
they are not going through my system i condense them into klein bottles and sell them to visiting Ferengi for pressed latinum!Yep, they are going through your system in the seated lotus position, and if you listen very carefully you can hear them chant...Ohmmm, Ohmmm, Ohmmm...
Mike
Depending how it is wired, it can add an AC/RF-catching loop in the audio system common. See image. Some details skimped (the turntable may have separate chassis and needle commons). And this objection would be reduced with a single conductor to the "ground box", reducing the LF loop to an RD-only monopole.
Here is a product clearly intended for MANY ground connections (but no dirt). Combined with grounded power plugs, nobody could trace all the possible loops. (Yes, un-grounded power plugs exist and this product would then hold the entire system to the same potential; but so would a $14 intersystem bonding termination.)
And of course if the "ground box" causes trouble, you rip it out and sell it on.
The *only* time I can recall working to create a DIRT ground was in an open field powered by an unknown generator (looked like war surplus). For the safety of my clients and me I brought a dirt-rod, hammer, jumper, so I could be pretty sure the musicians' mikes were near the ground potential they were standing on.
Having made many more dirt-bonds for power purposes, and replaced much equipment due to stray-path discharges, I know it takes a LOT more than a wad of foil in potting soil to make a "ground" that can do anything groundy. My last place (home of the fried modems) I went in the crawlspace to get on the buried metal pipe from the abandoned cistern. Here I have two 10-foot rods (recently inspected) buried next to the septic field, two in the footings under the livingroom, and another at the other side of the septic for the garage, all bonded with large wire. Even so I don't have <30 Ohms to "true ground" (which may not exist on this peninsula). If I throw a 120V live wire in the dirt it won't hardly make hot dirt, certainly not blow a fuse.
Attachments
One casual cite says a "ground box" may be filled with fine tourmaline sand.
Which is cool, because tourmaline is found here in Maine, as well as other places.
Benjamin Wilson investigated the electrical properties of tourmaline; note that his concept of electricity differed from Franklin's.
The grade used seems to cost $200/pound. But small tourmaline stones are $7/pound, a hammer is $9. If your arm gets tired, I found a China company sells tourmaline crushers larger than a truck.
AFAICT, tourmaline is not an electrical conductor. It can be piezoelectric if force is applied. (And piezos really can't be conductors.) Iron-rich tourmaline may be slightly magnetic.
Also Pyroelectric, an interesting thing.
Inside a box, with no looped conductors, pressure, heat, I can not see any electrical effects.
BUT tourmaline is claimed to have "healing power". Random reading: "Tourmaline is helpful in treating paranoia, dyslexia, improves hand/eye coordination. Tourmaline cleanses, purifies and transforms dense slow moving energy into lighter vibrational energy. It grounds spiritual energy into the physical plane, This stone clears and balance all the chakras, and forms a protective shield around the body." I hope it improves digestion; some of the claims are hard to swallow.
Which is cool, because tourmaline is found here in Maine, as well as other places.
Benjamin Wilson investigated the electrical properties of tourmaline; note that his concept of electricity differed from Franklin's.
The grade used seems to cost $200/pound. But small tourmaline stones are $7/pound, a hammer is $9. If your arm gets tired, I found a China company sells tourmaline crushers larger than a truck.
AFAICT, tourmaline is not an electrical conductor. It can be piezoelectric if force is applied. (And piezos really can't be conductors.) Iron-rich tourmaline may be slightly magnetic.
Also Pyroelectric, an interesting thing.
Inside a box, with no looped conductors, pressure, heat, I can not see any electrical effects.
BUT tourmaline is claimed to have "healing power". Random reading: "Tourmaline is helpful in treating paranoia, dyslexia, improves hand/eye coordination. Tourmaline cleanses, purifies and transforms dense slow moving energy into lighter vibrational energy. It grounds spiritual energy into the physical plane, This stone clears and balance all the chakras, and forms a protective shield around the body." I hope it improves digestion; some of the claims are hard to swallow.
Then you have not examined what goes into a ground box. It is basically a large metal spur to which all devices chassis get connected. The RF absorbing "dirt" is secondary. Depending on the grounding arrangements of each individual device you can have all sorts of unpredictable outcomes.
As I said, the ground box does not create a loop. People may make loops out of the wires connected to it.
Why have we wasted nearly 60 posts talking about nonsense? A ground box itself cannot do any good; at best it does nothing; at worst it picks up some RF and injects it into the ground at some random point in the system. Meanwhile, the wiring to it may add ground loops. Ground boxes only benefit the people selling them.
Why have we wasted nearly 60 posts talking about nonsense? A ground box itself cannot do any good; at best it does nothing; at worst it picks up some RF and injects it into the ground at some random point in the system. Meanwhile, the wiring to it may add ground loops. Ground boxes only benefit the people selling them.
It certainly introduces instability in rational thinking. The validity of the boxes would have been more clear, and more accurate, if we had referred to these as boxes of dirt rather than grounding boxes. You could remove the lid and use it as a planter box, and make the soundstage 'bloom'.
Ray K
Ray K
- Status
- Not open for further replies.