Concentration fatigue?
Every time I upgrade some component in my system I enjoy this wonderful "Ah-hah, that's it" experience. "I'm hearing dynamics and detail that I never heard before! But then that becomes normal. I wonder: "Is listening fatigue another term for concentration fatigue?" as my brain is now delightfully focussed or over-focussed on hearing what it never heard before. Oh, well. When is that F7 PCB going to appear in the DIY store? No, the F8, F9, F14!
Every time I upgrade some component in my system I enjoy this wonderful "Ah-hah, that's it" experience. "I'm hearing dynamics and detail that I never heard before! But then that becomes normal. I wonder: "Is listening fatigue another term for concentration fatigue?" as my brain is now delightfully focussed or over-focussed on hearing what it never heard before. Oh, well. When is that F7 PCB going to appear in the DIY store? No, the F8, F9, F14!
I have studied perception for decades and the following is what I have concluded.
As someone said, our brains are constantly digesting the ears data input to find the "signal". If the signal is music and the playback closely matches the original then the brain does not have to do much work and does not fatigue as fast (as someone else said, we always get fatigued from listening, it's just how fast.) Basically if the signal is "distorted" then the brain has to work harder. But distortion here means anything that changes the signal. That could be linear or nonlinear, it could be extraneous noise, etc. It is imperative to be clear about what kind of distortion we are talking about. For nonlinear distortion it is known that typical levels of nonlinear distortion are not very audible so that this is not likely to be a cause of fatiguing distortion.
Poor frequency response and/or poor polar response both have strong effects on fatigue since they change the natural sound that our brains are looking for. This is the highest contributor to listener fatigue.
But the distortion can, and very often is, part of the source material. If this is the case then the playback system can be perfect and yet listener fatigue will still result. This is why you can never judge a system with source material that you are not intimately familiar with.
A slightly sloping FR towards the HF is found to sound the most natural for loudspeakers with good axial and polar response based on hundreds of listening tests. The idea that one persons "preference" for a particular FR is pertinent to others is false. Studies have shown that accurate playback is essential to "good sound" for the masses, but may not be for the individual. We may get "used to" a poor system and find it "likeable" but others likely won't. Beranek's Law certainly applies.
It's best to rely on published research and not individual experiences.
As someone said, our brains are constantly digesting the ears data input to find the "signal". If the signal is music and the playback closely matches the original then the brain does not have to do much work and does not fatigue as fast (as someone else said, we always get fatigued from listening, it's just how fast.) Basically if the signal is "distorted" then the brain has to work harder. But distortion here means anything that changes the signal. That could be linear or nonlinear, it could be extraneous noise, etc. It is imperative to be clear about what kind of distortion we are talking about. For nonlinear distortion it is known that typical levels of nonlinear distortion are not very audible so that this is not likely to be a cause of fatiguing distortion.
Poor frequency response and/or poor polar response both have strong effects on fatigue since they change the natural sound that our brains are looking for. This is the highest contributor to listener fatigue.
But the distortion can, and very often is, part of the source material. If this is the case then the playback system can be perfect and yet listener fatigue will still result. This is why you can never judge a system with source material that you are not intimately familiar with.
A slightly sloping FR towards the HF is found to sound the most natural for loudspeakers with good axial and polar response based on hundreds of listening tests. The idea that one persons "preference" for a particular FR is pertinent to others is false. Studies have shown that accurate playback is essential to "good sound" for the masses, but may not be for the individual. We may get "used to" a poor system and find it "likeable" but others likely won't. Beranek's Law certainly applies.
It's best to rely on published research and not individual experiences.
If the compression is in the form or peak limiting, the noise floor, although changed relative to the peak values of programme, will not be significantly changed to the ear. The ear is also less stressed because the peak level is lower.
The ambient noise in my room is probably about 20dB.
Every time I upgrade some component in my system I enjoy this wonderful "Ah-hah, that's it" experience. "I'm hearing dynamics and detail that I never heard before! But then that becomes normal. I wonder: "Is listening fatigue another term for concentration fatigue?" as my brain is now delightfully focussed or over-focussed on hearing what it never heard before. Oh, well. When is that F7 PCB going to appear in the DIY store? No, the F8, F9, F14!
I'm in no doubt that we are self defeating in the sense that we strive to improve, and then we study to find (further) fault, endlessly chasing nirvana when our natural instinctual state is to perceive deception where it is occurring.
You are right, we adapt to the improvement and then see through a new more sophisticated illusion.
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I don't believe this to be universally true, it's not my experience. One extreme example perhaps - but I was always able to have a cheap portable radio on for extended periods without fatigue - the quality of the sound, the noise levels etc. were all subjectively poor, especially back in the old days listening to 'pirate' radio on AM late at night in the UK. I've found fatigue to happen more easily as attempts were made to improve the reproduction system - the more modern the system the more hi-fi it claims, the more likely it is to produce fatigue. Flat FR is not necessarily what I like.
I do agree with many - the quality of recordings is generally awful. Truly terrible.
My solution to many problems has been to focus on a mono system - that's a whole story to itself.
I think phase coherence has a bigger effect on listening fatigue than people realize. My early diy attempts with dsp had good frequency and polar response but would irritate me much sooner than my single driver table radio.
My system became much more enjoyable for long term listening as I addressed phase issues. I can't really hear much of a difference in quick a/b test fwiw.
This only applies to decent recordings obviously.
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That nice plot you posted is just sort-of the Fletcher-Munson measurement but actually presented in way much more intelligible to this audio crowd. (Lots of misunderstanding of F-M due to the silly way it is ordinarily presented.)
Thanks.
B.
You've re-discovered the El Greco fallacy.
BTW, are you sure you aren't reading your hearing results posted previously upside down?
B.
It would be expected for mono recordings played on a single speaker to be less fatiguing than stereo sound, because far less mental processing is needed to hear the speaker after processing away the room, etc.
(BTW, can't say as I recall just now ever having listening fatigue and I've spent long days listening for 6 decades. I never play loud enough long enough to tire those little bones in the ear or with much distortion (due to ESLs).)
B.
Yes, there is a lousy distorted annoying source material. On the other hand, I've recently been working through the recommended 100-best recordings ever from Norman Lebrecht and - perhaps oddly - there's no trouble enjoying ancient recordings. Could it be that old horn Caruso recordings have distortions but not of the sort that irritate? (Most on YouTube if you sort carefully - be sure to catch Tennestedt's Mahler).
But plain weird to talk as if the listener knew what the source was. Seems to violate the laws of science. Your brain collects the various pieces that reach your ears and creates the most coherent perceptions those pieces will support (see post #1570). Nothing to do with comparing the pieces to some unknown original.
B.
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It does not matter how quiet your room is. You probably do not understand what I mean...
In addition to component audio systems, I regularly use FM radios that I've refurbished, and enjoy them very much.
Any room in the house can have music. These include the Tivoli Model 1, KLH 21, and Proton 300/301.
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