There is a company making a waveguide for the ear, which reduces the resonance causing the peaking at 3khz. Measurements show some 7db decrease. The company makes dubious claims of distortion reductions, but customers with e.g. tinitus claim reduced fatigue and symptoms.
Im
thinking of trying it out, if it doesnt work its just a cheap bit of plastic wasted.
Calmer(R) | Less stress and higher quality sound
– Flare Audio Ltd
Im
thinking of trying it out, if it doesnt work its just a cheap bit of plastic wasted.
Calmer(R) | Less stress and higher quality sound
– Flare Audio Ltd
Charles, have you tried manipulating the crossover to get the sound you want at lp?
I asked about this when I first joined ("EQ'ing with the XO" that's what I was working on at the time) and basically got lambasted for even thinking of such blasphemy!
well I continued on designing the xo by ear @ lp
(starting from flat of course) and that's how I developed my 'house curve' there's no eq and tone controls are flat.
downside is your stuck with it, upside is the glorious sound you can achieve, my sweet spot is big enough that my head need not be in the proverbial vice and it still sounds acceptable about the room. it's a long arduous task but I'm about to do it again for a new system.
I asked about this when I first joined ("EQ'ing with the XO" that's what I was working on at the time) and basically got lambasted for even thinking of such blasphemy!
well I continued on designing the xo by ear @ lp
(starting from flat of course) and that's how I developed my 'house curve' there's no eq and tone controls are flat.
downside is your stuck with it, upside is the glorious sound you can achieve, my sweet spot is big enough that my head need not be in the proverbial vice and it still sounds acceptable about the room. it's a long arduous task but I'm about to do it again for a new system.
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interesting... this would be worth a thread when you have some observations to share
I notched mine at circa 3k to 4k for the center of the notch despite the tweeter is already down from the mid. Seems even a raise at these frequencies which was seen from measurment were hearable in the tweeter 2k to 20k hz range...again despite the tweeter is 2 or 3 db below the mid range !
It could e indeed an hyper acousy or erhaps the brain is sensible to the relative height of decibel at this M&F bump in relation to nthe close frequencies below 1k to 2k for instance and above, 4k to ...5/6k for illustration as well ?
Thanks to the extensive readings here and AllenB posts and "white paper" un sticky section, as advices by Diyaudio fellows, I proceed like MountainBob for my hapyness! Although playing with passive filter is not always a win-win game ! For instance I have a sharp + 4db at 6k to 7k and I'm not sure I want to notch in that area with a so short frequency window and 4 ohms drivers with a 85 db sensivity at 1w !
It could e indeed an hyper acousy or erhaps the brain is sensible to the relative height of decibel at this M&F bump in relation to nthe close frequencies below 1k to 2k for instance and above, 4k to ...5/6k for illustration as well ?
Thanks to the extensive readings here and AllenB posts and "white paper" un sticky section, as advices by Diyaudio fellows, I proceed like MountainBob for my hapyness! Although playing with passive filter is not always a win-win game ! For instance I have a sharp + 4db at 6k to 7k and I'm not sure I want to notch in that area with a so short frequency window and 4 ohms drivers with a 85 db sensivity at 1w !
This post will probably also go into the blasphemy bin too ! lol
But here's some of the things i do to help overcome listening fatigue....
First is address annoying perceived tonal imbalances.
Which as we all know can be due to either varying SPLs (Fletcher-Munson),
or widely varying source material.
The best method for adjusting tonal balance I've found, is to have easy to use volume controls for each section of the speaker.
So in my 4-ways, i have a separate level control for sub, mid, HF, and VHF...all subject to a master volume control. So the separate controls are only for relative volume between sections.
Each section spans approx 2.5 to 3 octaves, and it's usually very easy to get a pleasing, more realistic sounding tonal balance whatever the track or volume desired.
For me, this technique has added an immense amount of listening enjoyment. Probably second only to having built a good speaker, and tuned it well.
I can easily get tonal balance to what sounds right at low volume, then do the same as i quickly readjust for higher volume.
Next thing to overcome fatigue has been to ditch emphasis on a sweet spot, and try to maintain wider smooth coverage.
I don't even like a listening chair anymore, preferring to stand, or walk around within the coverage zone. It seems my ears quit working so hard to find and maintain the perfect spot .
In the same vein of not succumbing to a sweet spot, I often ditch stereo...which pretty much requires a defined listening axis.
My setup can change from stereo, to both sides playing L&R summed to mono, to Left or Right speaker alone playing summed mono. Simple press of a button, SPL matched setups, makes for instantaneous preference decisions.
Badly done stereo is especially annoying to me.
Dual mono often solves bad stereo, and surprisingly usually makes for better imaging.
Single speaker Left or Right (with stereo summed to mono), is the just about the cure for all mastering ills, it seems.....amazing how many tracks sound best that way.
Anyway, my cures for listening fatigue are all about how to make listening more enjoyable...that simple really...
Ok, go ahead and stone me now lol
But here's some of the things i do to help overcome listening fatigue....
First is address annoying perceived tonal imbalances.
Which as we all know can be due to either varying SPLs (Fletcher-Munson),
or widely varying source material.
The best method for adjusting tonal balance I've found, is to have easy to use volume controls for each section of the speaker.
So in my 4-ways, i have a separate level control for sub, mid, HF, and VHF...all subject to a master volume control. So the separate controls are only for relative volume between sections.
Each section spans approx 2.5 to 3 octaves, and it's usually very easy to get a pleasing, more realistic sounding tonal balance whatever the track or volume desired.
For me, this technique has added an immense amount of listening enjoyment. Probably second only to having built a good speaker, and tuned it well.
I can easily get tonal balance to what sounds right at low volume, then do the same as i quickly readjust for higher volume.
Next thing to overcome fatigue has been to ditch emphasis on a sweet spot, and try to maintain wider smooth coverage.
I don't even like a listening chair anymore, preferring to stand, or walk around within the coverage zone. It seems my ears quit working so hard to find and maintain the perfect spot .
In the same vein of not succumbing to a sweet spot, I often ditch stereo...which pretty much requires a defined listening axis.
My setup can change from stereo, to both sides playing L&R summed to mono, to Left or Right speaker alone playing summed mono. Simple press of a button, SPL matched setups, makes for instantaneous preference decisions.
Badly done stereo is especially annoying to me.
Dual mono often solves bad stereo, and surprisingly usually makes for better imaging.
Single speaker Left or Right (with stereo summed to mono), is the just about the cure for all mastering ills, it seems.....amazing how many tracks sound best that way.
Anyway, my cures for listening fatigue are all about how to make listening more enjoyable...that simple really...
Ok, go ahead and stone me now lol
I was never exposed to mono recordings and never really paid any attention until last year when I learned one of my reference tracks was recorded in mono, also pavel had a test recording I was totally surprised that was mono.
The depth and soundstage was still there and more cohesive it seemed....I want to play around in the near future with different configurations including a summed center channel.
Like iggy says your the one that needs to be pleased!
Is there any special tricks for summing l+r/l+r ?
The depth and soundstage was still there and more cohesive it seemed....I want to play around in the near future with different configurations including a summed center channel.
Like iggy says your the one that needs to be pleased!
Is there any special tricks for summing l+r/l+r ?
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Simplicity is easier to get right, some of the mono small group jazz recordings of the 50's have a wonderful presence. They would have been recorded very simply too with minimum processing. It's probably best to listen on one speaker too but perhaps using two speakers in a less than perfect stereo set up can widen the sound field.
Not sure what you mean.
I have the sound I want and the main points are that I like it when the speaker is as flat as possible across the entire range and treble dispersion controlled to 90deg.
This is what works for me and sounds as natural as possible.
Having spent some time recording and mixing that is what translates well to other speakers and sounds most like the instrument in real life to my ears.
When I listen seriously it is always nearfield and fairly loud, around 90-95dBSPL average although I turn it down if the speakers have noticeably more distortion then my own.
Currently my xover points are 250Hz and 1.2kHz. I'm not wedded to that, it's just what works for the driver I have right now.
I don't do BSC because that puts too much bass into the room and I like my speakers backed on to the wall anyway. That said if I could I'd soffit mount them but my wife would object and it seems like too much work anyway.
Unsurprisingly I prefer wide and shallow boxes to narrow and deep ones.
On the whole I have no problems with listening fatigue as long as I avoid tweeters with peaks above 20k I should not be able to hear and I don't consciously hear them but after a few hours I'm pleased when I can turn them off.
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That might be it, I have never read up on compression, but when I searched now it makes sense.
I recall reading when a new studio recording was made to give it more of a live sound, and it is different to listen to.
It's like comparing fast food that gives you instant gratification but leaves you feeling sick, compared to home-cooked food.
I recall reading when a new studio recording was made to give it more of a live sound, and it is different to listen to.
It's like comparing fast food that gives you instant gratification but leaves you feeling sick, compared to home-cooked food.
I cannot see how dynamic compression can cause fatigue, but I think introduced artefacts may do so.
Having just bought a high end FM tuner, (I listen a lot to FM), I cannot bear much current pop, both artistically, and technically, especially vocal styles of close mic. callisthenics, yelling and whinging, no matter how cleverly, but much from the 70s is well recorded vocally with presence and also vocally intimately expressing in a way to engage. The former is fatiguing.
I did listen to Cerys Mathews' Blues show a couple of weeks ago, and she played a 40s recording of a blues track with the most stunning sense of a room acoustic and wonderful presentation of a singer on one side and a piano on the other, and my walls disappeared. Must have been from a Blumlein pair.
Having just bought a high end FM tuner, (I listen a lot to FM), I cannot bear much current pop, both artistically, and technically, especially vocal styles of close mic. callisthenics, yelling and whinging, no matter how cleverly, but much from the 70s is well recorded vocally with presence and also vocally intimately expressing in a way to engage. The former is fatiguing.
I did listen to Cerys Mathews' Blues show a couple of weeks ago, and she played a 40s recording of a blues track with the most stunning sense of a room acoustic and wonderful presentation of a singer on one side and a piano on the other, and my walls disappeared. Must have been from a Blumlein pair.
Listening fatigue is from a poorly set up system and designed speakers end off...
The original poster referenced store bought speakers for sale
Come on chaps to much waffle in this thread.
This is diy audio multi-way so it goes Hand in hand measure and measure interpretate your results and tune to you and your room.
Example 1
a highly praised pair of commercially available floor standers watching movies loud volume next day my ears were hurting and ringing horrible but not notice it during movie
Example 2 ......DIY
Compression highs on horn waveguide
Compression mids on horn waveguide
Twin 15” bass cabs
Dialled in with REW minidsp etc etc
Stupidly high volumes spl without realising
No earache no fatigue but simple pleasure
Too much fatigue comes from overdriven drivers and stupid response graph claiming to the heavens in the highs 12khz plus
The original poster referenced store bought speakers for sale
Come on chaps to much waffle in this thread.
This is diy audio multi-way so it goes Hand in hand measure and measure interpretate your results and tune to you and your room.
Example 1
a highly praised pair of commercially available floor standers watching movies loud volume next day my ears were hurting and ringing horrible but not notice it during movie
Example 2 ......DIY
Compression highs on horn waveguide
Compression mids on horn waveguide
Twin 15” bass cabs
Dialled in with REW minidsp etc etc
Stupidly high volumes spl without realising
No earache no fatigue but simple pleasure
Too much fatigue comes from overdriven drivers and stupid response graph claiming to the heavens in the highs 12khz plus
Pharos, Highly compressed music with low crest-factor is the direct cause of fatiguing.
We usually set listening level based on RMS, not peak, however, at the same RMS level, low crest-factor mix is noisier than high ones, simply because noise floor is higher.
Quieter place is much less fatiguing than noisier place for human.
We usually set listening level based on RMS, not peak, however, at the same RMS level, low crest-factor mix is noisier than high ones, simply because noise floor is higher.
Quieter place is much less fatiguing than noisier place for human.
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