I remember this "damping trough " business when it first came out there was a bit of controversy over it.
If my Dais is "doing it wrong " why not phone Nottingham Analogue like I did in the 1980,s and I spent half an hour speaking personally to the designer .
It wasn't called Nottingham Analogue then obviously "got posher " as the price went up to over £5000 for their latest effort.
You do realise "damping rings " are fitted ?
If my Dais is "doing it wrong " why not phone Nottingham Analogue like I did in the 1980,s and I spent half an hour speaking personally to the designer .
It wasn't called Nottingham Analogue then obviously "got posher " as the price went up to over £5000 for their latest effort.
You do realise "damping rings " are fitted ?
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So the bolt on the arm clamp drags in the trough of silcone oil? Seems a lot of money for a couple of bits of milled alloy although it depends on the end results.
Sorry but I do not buy into sticking damping onto an LP12. If it's so basic an improvement why aren't the many owners doing it. Or Linn themselves.
Welding additional ribs to the sub frame or something I could get my head around. Improving the arm plate mounting, an acrylic or alloy arm board etc maybe.
I have read a great many discussions and seen plenty say damping is not the path to take.
There is a lot of **** talked in audio, none more so with turntables. At the end of the day you have to be confortable with what you have and so there will be a degree of believing you have the best you can manage. Personally I am no fan of boingy suspended subframe designs except for the brutalist SME 30. But that is me.
Well Linn isn't doing it because they don't make the stamped steel sub-chassis any longer. They've been pushed into the 21st century by the aftermarket, and had to develop their own "new" sub-chassis, top plate, etc.
jeff
If you had a milling machine or 3D printer you could make your own damping kit, as I did for my EPA100.
That's your decision but how many of those were subjective evaluations, I did the measuring many years ago when I had my LP12. I know the Linn bearing is quiet but there is still noise transmitted through the steel to the armboard, this is measurable with a scope or spectrum analyser.
Welding additional ribbing will warp the pressed steel rendering it useless.
Why don't you try making a new subchassis from MDF laminated between 2 bits of aluminium or acrylic and see how this goes. The stock bearing also needs to be stabilized by adding a brace to bottom to prevent it rocking.
Putting aside the folk who have heavily bought into the Linn religion, a correct operating LP12 is a lovely sounding player.
I have not had the pleasure of listening to all the top turntables, however I have owned and listened to a fair few and the LP12 is the one I have kept.
I am in no doubt one can be bettered or improved further. However, I maintain damping is one the wrong course. Place one on a solid rather than ridged table and the life goes out.
Use a rubber or foam mat and you dull the sound.
Yes, some after market people make subframes but these are stiffer not damped.
There are many Linn owners out there, most are not loaded suckers. If damping was the way to go it would be a popular diy or aftermarket business.
Plenty have tried damping and then had the messy task of removing it. It may reduce vibration, but it takes the good away with the bad.
I am all for diy improvement. I spent six months burning in racks of different capacitors then rolling combinations to find the best.
I have boxes of vintage valves.
Tried many different cables, stands, supports, feet etc.
If I were to diy my Linn it would be towards chassis stiffness not damping.
I have not had the pleasure of listening to all the top turntables, however I have owned and listened to a fair few and the LP12 is the one I have kept.
I am in no doubt one can be bettered or improved further. However, I maintain damping is one the wrong course. Place one on a solid rather than ridged table and the life goes out.
Use a rubber or foam mat and you dull the sound.
Yes, some after market people make subframes but these are stiffer not damped.
There are many Linn owners out there, most are not loaded suckers. If damping was the way to go it would be a popular diy or aftermarket business.
Plenty have tried damping and then had the messy task of removing it. It may reduce vibration, but it takes the good away with the bad.
I am all for diy improvement. I spent six months burning in racks of different capacitors then rolling combinations to find the best.
I have boxes of vintage valves.
Tried many different cables, stands, supports, feet etc.
If I were to diy my Linn it would be towards chassis stiffness not damping.
You can choose to knock Linn for its upgrade marketing.
On the other hand how many other turntables are still in production, still with readily available parts. Still supported by updates rather than purposely made obsolete.
Other companies could do well to look and learn.
Most LP12 s are still out there giving generations of owners pleasure rather than adding to landfill.
We could go on for 10 pages on the pros and cons of different turntables but I think there is plenty out there on LP12 tuning in other threads. It's a marmite turntable for sure, and many linnies wouldbe horribly offended if I pointed out a well fettled SL1200 would wipe the floor with it for fidelity. So I wont 
For those in Billshurv,s corner as regards "damping troughs " here is a DIY version -
DIY Tonearm Fluid Damping: And It Actually Works, Too!- Vinyl Engine
And here is a very long discourse on the subject that becomes a bit heated -
TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ? | Audiogon Discussion Forum
DIY Tonearm Fluid Damping: And It Actually Works, Too!- Vinyl Engine
And here is a very long discourse on the subject that becomes a bit heated -
TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ? | Audiogon Discussion Forum
Yes, looks a quite simple item to construct as an experiment. What fluid is best?
We could go on for 10 pages on the pros and cons of different turntables but I think there is plenty out there on LP12 tuning in other threads. It's a marmite turntable for sure, and many linnies wouldbe horribly offended if I pointed out a well fettled SL1200 would wipe the floor with it for fidelity. So I wont
I agree, we are off topic here. The debate on the LP12 will never be settled, on any thread. I disgree on a SL1200 sounding better though - My Linn is beautiful dancer, the SL1200 like a person being tasered
And do vacuum platters not do somewhat the same as an LP is judged to be uneven and subject to the same FM distortions except as regards a separate mechanical issue but the same type of result ?
There was a thread on this recently here.
And the "ringing effect " is this not damped by rubber rings round the platter ?
Or even types of mats --I still have a thick Canadian mat made out of a special plastic/rubber compound that was used in my old Garrad 301 .
There was a thread on this recently here.
And the "ringing effect " is this not damped by rubber rings round the platter ?
Or even types of mats --I still have a thick Canadian mat made out of a special plastic/rubber compound that was used in my old Garrad 301 .
This has been interesting since my original post.
I have drawn the conclusion that a change from my Shure V15 to an MC is not a clear upgrade. Esp given my carbon arm.
Changing to a Jilco stylus is not a universal recommendation (until the original wears)
A few other Cartridges have have recommended, The London Super Gold still has me wondering, the Grace F9 has been recommended on VE but not easily available in the UK right now second hand.
While this has been going on I spent a full day trying many minor alignment tweaks to the V15. Using a loupe I have slightly altered to the tip angle rather than cart body. My conclusion is its not a fussy cart to set up but using the Shure Test LP may eeked a minor improvement.
I also pulled the loading 47k resistors from the Phono amp and ran some fly leads to a spare Alps pot. Running with headphones on I played around with the loading.
I have very little capacitance, say 100pf in the cable, no loading of the amp so just what is residual between phono and tube.
80 to 90K seems good, a little more space without going thin. I will run for a while to be sure then fit fixed values.
Now all the talk of Linn and its march forward over the years has me enquiring on the new Karousel bearing vs a MOBER chassis !
I ordered the adapter to try my B&O carts purely out of interest.
I have drawn the conclusion that a change from my Shure V15 to an MC is not a clear upgrade. Esp given my carbon arm.
Changing to a Jilco stylus is not a universal recommendation (until the original wears)
A few other Cartridges have have recommended, The London Super Gold still has me wondering, the Grace F9 has been recommended on VE but not easily available in the UK right now second hand.
While this has been going on I spent a full day trying many minor alignment tweaks to the V15. Using a loupe I have slightly altered to the tip angle rather than cart body. My conclusion is its not a fussy cart to set up but using the Shure Test LP may eeked a minor improvement.
I also pulled the loading 47k resistors from the Phono amp and ran some fly leads to a spare Alps pot. Running with headphones on I played around with the loading.
I have very little capacitance, say 100pf in the cable, no loading of the amp so just what is residual between phono and tube.
80 to 90K seems good, a little more space without going thin. I will run for a while to be sure then fit fixed values.
Now all the talk of Linn and its march forward over the years has me enquiring on the new Karousel bearing vs a MOBER chassis !
I ordered the adapter to try my B&O carts purely out of interest.
Sadly, Jico may be the only choice, with alternative of playing CDs. Jico is desperation. Jicos may be not too bad on non-demanding records, but try Tchaikovsky's 4th finale in inner grooves! Jico may have their merit as aftermarket replacement, but definitely not at 10x price markup of their actual worth.
Looking at Jico stylus at high magnification is quite revealing. Soft aluminum tube cantilever. Diamond tip bonded to crude steel shank. A huge blob of glue holding a needle. That's how my revered Jico SAS "Special Tracking" replacement for Shure VN15E looks like. The best OEM styli, e.g. VN5MR, AT160, XT-IV, by contrast, are marvels of craftsmansip. Recently, I've read a fascinating story by the designer of the ADC Astrion cartridge. A lot of ingenuity, break-through innovative ideas, material science, computer simulations (remember, this is early 80s, computers were outrageously expensive!) went into it. Cut-throat competition between major manufacturers. And you say Jico.
I understand there are fans of Jico. There are also fans of GE cartridges with stamped bronze cantilevers. There are even fans of playing 78 rpm with steel needles on acoustic Victrola grammophones. To each their own.
Looking at Jico stylus at high magnification is quite revealing. Soft aluminum tube cantilever. Diamond tip bonded to crude steel shank. A huge blob of glue holding a needle. That's how my revered Jico SAS "Special Tracking" replacement for Shure VN15E looks like. The best OEM styli, e.g. VN5MR, AT160, XT-IV, by contrast, are marvels of craftsmansip. Recently, I've read a fascinating story by the designer of the ADC Astrion cartridge. A lot of ingenuity, break-through innovative ideas, material science, computer simulations (remember, this is early 80s, computers were outrageously expensive!) went into it. Cut-throat competition between major manufacturers. And you say Jico.
I understand there are fans of Jico. There are also fans of GE cartridges with stamped bronze cantilevers. There are even fans of playing 78 rpm with steel needles on acoustic Victrola grammophones. To each their own.
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As you've probably figured out, the Karousel bearing kit is £750. If you're going to keep your stock steel sub-chassis, I wouldn't bother.
jeff