That's certainly not my experience. The 6 speakers in my main system all have compression drivers.
The only level I'd play AN gear at is zero.
LOL! 😀
I know you Brett and have a pretty good idea you don't baby the volume control on your system. At least you didn't when you auditioned mine! I still love cranking "Miller Time".
Cheers
I know you Brett and have a pretty good idea you don't baby the volume control on your system. At least you didn't when you auditioned mine! I still love cranking "Miller Time".
Cheers
Absolutely! Folks tend to let their personal distortion level decide how loud to listen, so with a horn system's up to ~25 dB of extra dynamic headroom it's usually those around us with more sensitive hearing that sets it.
GM
Agreed. This is why I mostly use ribbons and domes on waveguides. It's true that I probably sacrifice a few decibels of maximum output, but I don't need to generate 130dB at 2khz in my living room. It IS nice to have a tweeter that can play out to 20khz, which is why I'm a fan of domes and ribbons on waveguides.
I don't think I'd use them without a waveguide, their SPL is too limited.
My measurements indicate that a cheap dome tweeter can outperform a BMS 4552.
I have both at my disposal; I like the BMS 4552.
But if your goal is a low crossover point, a dome tweeter wins because it has more displacement, due to higher xmax. Basically the surface area of the radiator is smaller but the xmax is higher, so the overall displacement of a dome is higher.
There's no free lunch, and a BMS 4552 will smoke a dome tweeter if you need to do 130dB at 2khz.
But if you need to do 110dB at 1khz, the dome wins. The output of the 4552 drops like a rock on the low end of it's bandwidth.
I have some mixed thoughts on this comment. Although you did not say “there is no replacement for displacement”, you kind of sidled up next to it. To me it is one of the big myths of speaker design, as there is a direct replacement, and that is weight (or lack thereof) and sensitivity gained by unrestricted motion.
The difficulty with the 4552 at 1khz is not the diaphragm size, or the x-max, but the exit angle of the driver. The 4552 uses the same VC and diaphragm material as the 4550, and it has no problem at 1khz. Since the 4552 is much shallower than the 4550, it opens up at a sharper angle, to get to the same horn mount, 1”. This precludes it from loading at the horn at this frequency, as effectively as the 4550.
I still like the sound of the neo, and the 4552 better than the ceramic.
I have used the 4552 on a horn that will load it to 1khz, but the horn can’t match the exit angle, it has to be steeper, and it has to be a bit deeper in the throat than normal. A fast opening horn will not work.
So what is your take on EQ of a dome in a waveguide? To me the conventional wisdom is that the compression driver needs more EQ than the dome. But this is in free air, surface mounted, not in a waveguide. Do you have to use as much EQ on the dome in the horn, or is a function of the compression that makes the compression driver need more EQ, and not the horn itself?
The difficulty with the 4552 at 1khz is not the diaphragm size, or the x-max, but the exit angle of the driver. The 4552 uses the same VC and diaphragm material as the 4550, and it has no problem at 1khz. Since the 4552 is much shallower than the 4550, it opens up at a sharper angle, to get to the same horn mount, 1”. This precludes it from loading at the horn at this frequency, as effectively as the 4550.
I still like the sound of the neo, and the 4552 better than the ceramic.
I have used the 4552 on a horn that will load it to 1khz, but the horn can’t match the exit angle, it has to be steeper, and it has to be a bit deeper in the throat than normal. A fast opening horn will not work.
So what is your take on EQ of a dome in a waveguide? To me the conventional wisdom is that the compression driver needs more EQ than the dome. But this is in free air, surface mounted, not in a waveguide. Do you have to use as much EQ on the dome in the horn, or is a function of the compression that makes the compression driver need more EQ, and not the horn itself?
Agree - I've done distortion tests and all my dome tweeters are very similar but there was a huge reduction in distortion with the compression driver.
Sine wave at 110dB RMS is pretty lowish, considering the speaker-listner distance and peak-RMS difference. This is why we can clearly hear the difference at transient when we listen to dynamic contents like music at realistic playback level. Dome wins? I don't think so in this aspect, and I have dome and compression driver in the same room for more than 10 years.
I'd love to know what cheap dome has H3 >50dB below the fundamental from 1.5KHz on up at 110dB/1M or >40dB below at 120dB, like the 4552ND. Actually where do I even find a dome that will do 120dB/1M?
The Satori, an excellent tweeter in its own right, can't match that distortion spec at 95dB. You've found a cheapie that's significantly better?
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John, I beg to differ.
Many years ago I designed and built a 90x50 Synergy horn that crosses a 4550 at 900Hz to some B&C 8NDL51s. These speakers regularly get driven all night at 1600W/RMS per box and have not failed, nor do they sound harsh at those power levels. I've never seen any dome tweeter in a horn or not that can provide that level of output below 1KHz for any period of time without destruction, let alone doing it as cleanly as the BMS ring radiator.
My old 2344/2426 combo and the significantly cheaper new XT1464/HF146 combo are worlds apart measurement- and sound-wise. And guess which one is better ?
Regards
Charles
Its hard to imagine something as efficient as a Synergy being driven with anywhere near that amount of power. Must be some low efficiency woofers in there along with the mids and 4550
Well.... I do on occasion, but I'm in an apartment, so there's only so loud I can go, especially with music with a beat. Classical and movies I get away with more.
I'm finally in the process of rebuilding the Unitys but it will take a while and they are job 6 or so; I also got a DEQX for them. In the interim, I picked up a PHL/Fountek based 3 way system to tide me over. I'll move it into the bedroom later.
If you haven't already heard it, look for his Amazing Grace.
bwaslo,
It was not an analysis. Physical laws express simple, universal, contextless relations in isolation in a very much caeteris paribus manner, just like numerical as well as analytical mathematical approaches do due to restricted expressibility, where "all other things being equal" denotes (a huge number of) ignored parameters.
I don't quite see the relevance of that. Look, we should not discuss this here.
Zvu,
The energetic state arises by a compressive force. Pressure is an appropriate way to see and describe physical occurrences and distortion, but certainly there is more to it.
The expression "thermal compression" is unconventional. A higher temperature means lower density, higher reactivity, faster vibration and lower bandwidth, thus more (high frequency) distortion.
cyberstudio,
maybe I will be able to offer some understandable explication soon.
It was not an analysis. Physical laws express simple, universal, contextless relations in isolation in a very much caeteris paribus manner, just like numerical as well as analytical mathematical approaches do due to restricted expressibility, where "all other things being equal" denotes (a huge number of) ignored parameters.
I don't quite see the relevance of that. Look, we should not discuss this here.
Zvu,
The energetic state arises by a compressive force. Pressure is an appropriate way to see and describe physical occurrences and distortion, but certainly there is more to it.
The expression "thermal compression" is unconventional. A higher temperature means lower density, higher reactivity, faster vibration and lower bandwidth, thus more (high frequency) distortion.
cyberstudio,
maybe I will be able to offer some understandable explication soon.
The compression driver factor has very poor transient characteristics, hitting the waveguide leads to an increase in distortion as the fact of reflection and compression of the wave to form the desired directivity in the compartment leads to a poor signal-to-noise ratio.
like a sound coming from a pipe:
YouTube
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