I did, to use in my Bottlehead BeePre preamp. I can't compare them to any of the other megabuck 300Bs, but the WEs were clearly superior to the <$500 ones I've tried. They were noticeably "better" (in the sense they sound the way I want them to) when I first plugged them in, but after 3-4 months they went through a change, where everything they already did "better" increased to another level.
I also tried them in my Bottlehead Kaiju and the difference they made wasn't as big, but I have noticed that that amp doesn't seem as sensitive to tube rolling.
When I use one of my Pass clone amps, tube rolling through the preamp is very noticeable with the WEs being the ones I prefer by a big margin.
I mean, there’s got to be some aspects of tube manufacturing that are easier to do nowadays. I obviously am not speaking from experience but there has to be some advantages with current computerized monitoring and automated processes. I don’t doubt there is a great deal of metallurgical wisdom that will need rediscovering.
I would think their goal is a 12AX7 that retails for just under $100.
I would think their goal is a 12AX7 that retails for just under $100.
Thanks poibruce- that's what I was looking for- someone who actually bought a pair and can sound off like they've got a pair!
I plan to buy a pair as soon as I can pay and have them delivered as soon as they're ordered. I'm also building a 1953 Chevy pickup and have to wait 6 - 8 weeks to receive many of the items purchased and paid for.
The gist of the discussion so far is reactivating industrial methods based in the ~30s to replicate products limited by the labour intensive industrial methods and knowledge of the 30s. The Soviets were more advance 50 years ago. This path only makes sense if the people and manufacturing plants are sitting around, willing to work and ready to go after a quick dusting.
WE is already making and selling tubes, they just want to extend their tube model offerings.
That is a very different matter from starting from scratch. They also manufacture complete tube audio equipment.
https://www.westernelectric.com/
That is a very different matter from starting from scratch. They also manufacture complete tube audio equipment.
https://www.westernelectric.com/
Then the Original topic line was misleading.
If the plant is already established, the economics are different.
And the tools for the screens and other metal parts, if they are ready, it makes the whole job much less difficult.
The question about price and viability is still there, but from India, I cannot comment on the demand and prices for tube gear.
And to some extent, tubes are consumable, so a recurring demand may be there from users.
If the plant is already established, the economics are different.
And the tools for the screens and other metal parts, if they are ready, it makes the whole job much less difficult.
The question about price and viability is still there, but from India, I cannot comment on the demand and prices for tube gear.
And to some extent, tubes are consumable, so a recurring demand may be there from users.
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I'd think the metallurgy will not be too big of a hurdle, as far as the production line and quality control goes, imaging by both ultrasonic and x ray with a dose of machine learning will ensure every out of alignment or not to spec assembly never makes it inside the "bubble" the wastage will be less than in the past. There's even scope for metal sprayed anodes, 3d ceramic printing of parts, the list goes on. This is not expensive today and becoming the norm for all manufacturing.
Grid assemblies (I know they're not a spring but for an idea ) have you seen a modern spring factory? the machines are not large and they pump out volumes. To put it into perspective almost every domestic light switch made for Schneider/Clipsal Australia has its spring is made in a tiny factory in Adelaide. I couldn't believe it when I met the manager at that factory.
I was also thinking of $1,000000 order for a lot of 50,000 12ax7s. To look at it this way how many guitar shops/ online stores are there on the globe? Several thousand? Times this by decent a stock holding and 100000 tubes would disappear in a wink. Most amps use 2-3 12ax7s.
Keep the money out of questionable governments hands and support your own countries manufacturing I try to in Australia and everyone in the USA should as well, buying NOS doesn't help the future and is like fibre glassing a rotting boat hull. It will sink eventually.
I'd also say that maybie my grandchildren will be able to pick up a NOS WE 12ax7 from 2022 to retube their family heirloom guitar amp.
Grid assemblies (I know they're not a spring but for an idea ) have you seen a modern spring factory? the machines are not large and they pump out volumes. To put it into perspective almost every domestic light switch made for Schneider/Clipsal Australia has its spring is made in a tiny factory in Adelaide. I couldn't believe it when I met the manager at that factory.
I was also thinking of $1,000000 order for a lot of 50,000 12ax7s. To look at it this way how many guitar shops/ online stores are there on the globe? Several thousand? Times this by decent a stock holding and 100000 tubes would disappear in a wink. Most amps use 2-3 12ax7s.
Keep the money out of questionable governments hands and support your own countries manufacturing I try to in Australia and everyone in the USA should as well, buying NOS doesn't help the future and is like fibre glassing a rotting boat hull. It will sink eventually.
I'd also say that maybie my grandchildren will be able to pick up a NOS WE 12ax7 from 2022 to retube their family heirloom guitar amp.
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3d printing not expensive? Did you check the prices? 3d printing is hobby, not industrial process.
Actually, during the first Covid wave, Ford (IIRC), turned over some of their many (thousands) of 3-D printers over from car part making to making parts for ventilators.
It seems some parts are too complex for the conventional plastic molding processes.
To that extent, it is no longer a hobby level process.
Ceramic 3D would require firing after the forming of shapes, I think, so not much advantage.
Here a company used to make thread guides for synthetic yarn by injection molding green ceramics (wet ceramics are called green, or not fired), then firing, then final polish.
This achieved accurate dimensions. More accurate than with other processes.
It seems some parts are too complex for the conventional plastic molding processes.
To that extent, it is no longer a hobby level process.
Ceramic 3D would require firing after the forming of shapes, I think, so not much advantage.
Here a company used to make thread guides for synthetic yarn by injection molding green ceramics (wet ceramics are called green, or not fired), then firing, then final polish.
This achieved accurate dimensions. More accurate than with other processes.
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One more thing, the grids and so on used nickel steel IIRC, and they are thin.
So not easy to handle.
Coil spring making is coiling, heat treatment after end forming, and final finish.
In a switch, those things are tiny, expect thousands per hour from a desk sized machine as the coil former.
More or less the same size as those in pens and toys, only the pens use longer length and a slightly bigger diameter.
Due to thickness, heat treatment cycle will be short.
I used to be in charge of making truck leaf springs at my Uncle's plant in Hyderabad, he would go on vacation, leave me in charge during college vacations.
Average 120 tons a month.
So I know a bit about springs...
So not easy to handle.
Coil spring making is coiling, heat treatment after end forming, and final finish.
In a switch, those things are tiny, expect thousands per hour from a desk sized machine as the coil former.
More or less the same size as those in pens and toys, only the pens use longer length and a slightly bigger diameter.
Due to thickness, heat treatment cycle will be short.
I used to be in charge of making truck leaf springs at my Uncle's plant in Hyderabad, he would go on vacation, leave me in charge during college vacations.
Average 120 tons a month.
So I know a bit about springs...
Yes it was the output and tiny size that I found really interesting, they just pumped them out by the bucket full! The machines were not huge and I'd assume power consumption was not too heavy. Infact my first thought was what would a modern tube assembly line look like.
I did see a Mullard clip and it appeared that the grids were made in long runs and cut to length after winding and fusing/welding them to the side posts, is this how they do it for some types? Some of those grid assemblies also looked fairly robust when handled, the wire must not be too soft.
I did see a Mullard clip and it appeared that the grids were made in long runs and cut to length after winding and fusing/welding them to the side posts, is this how they do it for some types? Some of those grid assemblies also looked fairly robust when handled, the wire must not be too soft.
Not really, just incomplete. The info is in the first two post and also in the link provided. Sometimes you have to read past the headline. 😉
If they can put millions of transistors on a silicon chip or build an iPhone, I don't think winding grid wires will present much of a challenge.
There are processes already in place already doing this. It's not rocket surgery. BTW, I don't think truck springs are comparable.
There are processes already in place already doing this. It's not rocket surgery. BTW, I don't think truck springs are comparable.
The grids and wires are in springy material.and must be centered properly.
Or the emissions will not be even all over the periphery.
The process from strip to grid in what is foil thickness material requires careful handling, so as not to cause burrs and other surface defects.
Springy material requires tools designed for a material that will try to retain its flatness, so a little different from regular steel.
I think this would clear things up a little.
Or the emissions will not be even all over the periphery.
The process from strip to grid in what is foil thickness material requires careful handling, so as not to cause burrs and other surface defects.
Springy material requires tools designed for a material that will try to retain its flatness, so a little different from regular steel.
I think this would clear things up a little.
Here's how they wind the grid of a 300B... Doesn't seem overly complicated...
Yes, a thread cutting sequence on a lathe is similar.
The fun starts when you have to mount the grid parallel to the screens.
Maybe they got around that, too.
The fun starts when you have to mount the grid parallel to the screens.
Maybe they got around that, too.
Well of course there is no screen in a triode 🙂
Yes, aligning the grids in a tetrode/pentode is slightly more difficult though.
Yes, aligning the grids in a tetrode/pentode is slightly more difficult though.
-Some- of the later frame grid tube Screen Grids appear to have been formed as halves (as sides, so wire only on one side of the punched support/former plate ), then the mica supports position the spacing of the halves. This would eliminate the touchy sliding of close fitting grids over one another for making pentodes. There might be some angled tabs on the ends of those support/former plates that get welded to insure spacing accuracy. Tube construction innovations were still progressing toward the end of the era.
This would suggest that the entire tube guts could be made of wafers stacked together with ceramic spacer layers. (3D printed ceramic? probably just mass produced by molding/firing ) Little tabs protruding from the frame grid edges for wire bonding. Even those smart chimps could build tubes. If the layers already have wires bonded to them on the bottom, then just a glass pinch could be used. Similar to some of the sub-mini tubes.
build tubes.
This would suggest that the entire tube guts could be made of wafers stacked together with ceramic spacer layers. (3D printed ceramic? probably just mass produced by molding/firing ) Little tabs protruding from the frame grid edges for wire bonding. Even those smart chimps could build tubes. If the layers already have wires bonded to them on the bottom, then just a glass pinch could be used. Similar to some of the sub-mini tubes.
build tubes.
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3d printers started as an industrial processes and when the costs dropped they became a hobby. They're 3d printing turbine engine parts now. https://www.ge.com/news/reports/mad-props-3d-printed-airplane-engine-will-run-year