I signed up. The form also has a place to enter a list of tubes you want to see them resurrecting again. Here is my "dream list" of tubes I'd like to see them making as current production again, it excludes the ones WE already listed on the page. 50 and VT52 are unobtanium these days, how could they have left 2A3 off their own list that seems obvious.
2A3, 6A3, 6B4G, 45, 50, 10Y, 12AY7, 12DW7, 417A, 6C45P, 6SN7, 6CG7, 6DJ8, 6922, ECL86, ECL82, KT88, VT52
2A3, 6A3, 6B4G, 45, 50, 10Y, 12AY7, 12DW7, 417A, 6C45P, 6SN7, 6CG7, 6DJ8, 6922, ECL86, ECL82, KT88, VT52
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Great, this in-shoring process. Let it happen.
Would like some WE transformers and coupling caps too (the latter I had from old equipment, could not resist selling them at over $100 a pair, but I'm now having regrets, even though I have nice Bell ones, the WE's had extreme dynamics.)
Would like some WE transformers and coupling caps too (the latter I had from old equipment, could not resist selling them at over $100 a pair, but I'm now having regrets, even though I have nice Bell ones, the WE's had extreme dynamics.)
I couldn't pass up the t-shirt probably the coolest logo ever made.
https://www.westernelectric.com/vintage-western-electric-shirt
https://www.westernelectric.com/vintage-western-electric-shirt
Hopefully they've found the funding for a more automated, more efficient production line.. I'd love to see another vendor, but their business model is gonna have to be drastically different to succeed with the tubes they're considering making.
Nobody is going to pay hundreds of dollars for a 12AX7...
Nobody is going to pay hundreds of dollars for a 12AX7...
I don't even want to pay 20$ for a 12AX7, especially when 6N2P were like 2$.
EDIT: 6N2 is about 7$ now...
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000099637949.html
EDIT: 6N2 is about 7$ now...
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000099637949.html
$3 has been the new $1 for a long time now, I don‘t suppose $7 for a $2 tube is that much different.
What still seems to be plentiful (and $3-5) are video amplifiers, color demodulators, RF/IF amps, and vertical oscillator/amplifiers. The trick is to find the gems in the bunch that at least behave as well as a 12AU7 and design around them. Some (or pieces of them) approach 6SN7 linearity or at least 12AT7 gain. Not necessarily a solution for just dropping into an existing amplifier, but at least you can build a new one without spending a fortune on the small signal gain stages you need for everything.
No shortage of cheap 10 watt triodes or 10-17 watt pentodes either. Yeah, the big boys are getting scarce and expensive. But if all you were going to do was get a pair of EL84 or 6V6 up and running there are alternatives. Especially for guitar amps where you simply aren’t looking to get .05% distortion at 2 watts and 1% at full power.
If WE came in at $100 on a 6550 I’d consider them over $50 New Sensor in an existing amp. Pretty slim chance of that though. A little steep for an AX7 - I’d still be thinking “what TV tube can I use instead?”. To sell 6SN7’s, 12AX7s, 6V6’s in any sort of quantity, I think they‘d have to come in under 50 bucks apiece. People might spend 2X to not send their money to places they would rather not, but not a whole lot more. Some people will always be able to absorb increased cost - whatever that happens to be. A set of tubes goes up to 5 grand, no big deal. Buy ‘em, pop ‘em in, adjust the bias and crank up the music. If gas goes up to $90 a gallon, they’d continue to drive just as many miles in just as big a vehicle. At some point, however, “lifestyle change” becomes more preferable to paying what things cost. We’ll have to see where things end up.
What still seems to be plentiful (and $3-5) are video amplifiers, color demodulators, RF/IF amps, and vertical oscillator/amplifiers. The trick is to find the gems in the bunch that at least behave as well as a 12AU7 and design around them. Some (or pieces of them) approach 6SN7 linearity or at least 12AT7 gain. Not necessarily a solution for just dropping into an existing amplifier, but at least you can build a new one without spending a fortune on the small signal gain stages you need for everything.
No shortage of cheap 10 watt triodes or 10-17 watt pentodes either. Yeah, the big boys are getting scarce and expensive. But if all you were going to do was get a pair of EL84 or 6V6 up and running there are alternatives. Especially for guitar amps where you simply aren’t looking to get .05% distortion at 2 watts and 1% at full power.
If WE came in at $100 on a 6550 I’d consider them over $50 New Sensor in an existing amp. Pretty slim chance of that though. A little steep for an AX7 - I’d still be thinking “what TV tube can I use instead?”. To sell 6SN7’s, 12AX7s, 6V6’s in any sort of quantity, I think they‘d have to come in under 50 bucks apiece. People might spend 2X to not send their money to places they would rather not, but not a whole lot more. Some people will always be able to absorb increased cost - whatever that happens to be. A set of tubes goes up to 5 grand, no big deal. Buy ‘em, pop ‘em in, adjust the bias and crank up the music. If gas goes up to $90 a gallon, they’d continue to drive just as many miles in just as big a vehicle. At some point, however, “lifestyle change” becomes more preferable to paying what things cost. We’ll have to see where things end up.
205D for sure, 211, 10x tubes. The original people here seem to be missing what company they are talking about here. Let Electroharmonix have the 6v6 et al market. We want WE tubes!
I'm not sure why people imagine the prices will be silly, unless of course they're going by the fact you'd need a mortgage for their 300bs
No reason they should be silly money, the resurrected Brimar in the UK have very realistic pricing.
https://brimaruk.com/product-category/brimar/valvestubes/
No reason they should be silly money, the resurrected Brimar in the UK have very realistic pricing.
https://brimaruk.com/product-category/brimar/valvestubes/
All we have to go off of is Western Electric's current price on the one tube they offer. When I answered their survey I added what I'd be willing to pay for the tubes. Production costs are exponentially higher in the US and each company has to make the decision as to where they are going to try to fall in the price vs volume range. I'd think it is less risky to go lower volume and pursue the high end market.
It looks like Brimar aren't yet manufacturing in the UK. From their site: "but each time you purchase one of our electron tubes it brings us closer to manufacturing right here in the U.K."
and:
https://brimaruk.com/menugbvp/great-british-valve-project-2/
"Now that we have presses, grid winders, out-gass, bulb making, etc. machines located in our West Midlands base we need to get on with their refurbishment and building all the ancillary facilities, equipment, QA procedures etc. that will bring our manufacturing into the 21st century. We now need to assemble a small army of volunteers with experience in project management, fund raising, finance, negotiation, law, production engineers, etc."
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No, I don't think they've got that far, and I'm not sure where they are sourcing their current Brimar branded product range, but the range they are currently selling shows that they are realistic as regards pricing, and I would imagine is the sort of price level they are looking to apply when manufacturing.
Just to add, I realy can't imagine UK production costs being any lower than those in the US.
Just to add, I realy can't imagine UK production costs being any lower than those in the US.
So is this 300B actually made by this Brimar team? Or is it rebranded? The price is very good.
https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-300b/
I believe they are rebranded at the moment. They are still in the process of gearing up to restart production. The point I was making is that the price levels they are offering will, I imagine, be similar to the prices when they start production. Which is why I'm saying there's no need for WE to be asking silly money.
Not sure who the original makers are, but I wouldn't imagine Brimar would chance ruining their reputation rebranding inferior product.
Maybe it's worth emailing and asking.
Very exciting! I know people here are talking about tubes from the far reaches of the internet but for plenty of audiophiles they will be willing to pay for new US production and knowing exactly what they are getting. We are a different group here, the vast majority of tube amp users would not want to deal with this, and that is why companies like this have a great opportunity.
For pricing, it seems the 300B is the most expensive new production power tube, 2-3x more than things like a KT88. So while the WE 300B is a whopping $3100/quad, that leaves a lot of room below it for something like the KT88.
The warranty question will be the elephant in the room. Even if expensive, if they still offered the 5 year warranty that adds a lot of value (again for an audiophile with money). Even some sort of pro-rate scheme. Like 100% coverage for year 1, 80% for year 2, 60% for year 3.
Even if you are not ready to spend the money, I hope everyone here can appreciate in the year 2022 we are looking at the possibility of a wide range of American made vacuum tubes. This is exciting!!!
Also, would be shocked if WE and McIntosh, Audio Research, etc. were not talking. I could see some exciting possibilities there (WE suppling OEM tubes).
For pricing, it seems the 300B is the most expensive new production power tube, 2-3x more than things like a KT88. So while the WE 300B is a whopping $3100/quad, that leaves a lot of room below it for something like the KT88.
The warranty question will be the elephant in the room. Even if expensive, if they still offered the 5 year warranty that adds a lot of value (again for an audiophile with money). Even some sort of pro-rate scheme. Like 100% coverage for year 1, 80% for year 2, 60% for year 3.
Even if you are not ready to spend the money, I hope everyone here can appreciate in the year 2022 we are looking at the possibility of a wide range of American made vacuum tubes. This is exciting!!!
Also, would be shocked if WE and McIntosh, Audio Research, etc. were not talking. I could see some exciting possibilities there (WE suppling OEM tubes).
I hope your optimism is correct. Schiit Audio has shown us that things can still be competitively priced when made in the US so there is some hope. Time will tell if WE goes after the exclusive high end market in a wider range of tubes or tries to move large numbers of more affordable tubes to help keep steady funding for their high end offerings.
Well said. I guess it depends how they have setup their business model (and how flexible it is for high volume/lower costs). Pre-war, a Genalex KT88 was $60. If we used that as a baseline, I'd say you would be 2-3x that retail at minimum (and I think a $120 retail would be too good to be true). Just for fun, let's say they could make a 'great' KT88 (better than anything new production from Russia, China, Slovenia) for $200. That is expensive, in the scope of audiophilia it would be a steal and many would appreciate it being made in USA (including those in many western-aligned nations - same way I would fall over myself for a tube made in Canada, France, Japan, etc.).
But back to your real point, it will be interesting to see what their play is. Are they looking to maintain a quality floor (better than any new production tube) and go for a volume play and keep retails as low as possible...or will it remain more boutique and going to crazy good stuff?
If you look at the tube list here, this (to me at least) suggest they are looking for the more popular and lower-cost tubes. Can anyone else read between the lines on this list?
12AX7
EL34
6L6
6V6
EL84
6H30
KT88
274B
If I recall correctly, the Groove Tubes 6L6GE was about $75 pair, but for whatever reason, they stopped production. Maybe it was not profitable at that price point.
Win W5JAG
Win W5JAG