stretchneck: I will add that my experience and opinion on 18WE is for midrange duty only. I also thought of 2way with this driver, but modelling showed TS does not provide any reasonable bass tuning => I would hesitate to use it in 2way.
Putting the initial thread title aside, I might have honed in on a solution following a bit more research (I'm really just posting this up to help anyone else with a similar quandary).
Revelator 18W, whilst being a great midrange-woofer for the money, is said not to be as open/3D as illuminator or Satori, so it would end up being the wrong direction for me, despite it being a bit less neutral and a bit more more coloured (warm/rich/full), which is what I'm after. Ellipticor 18WE is still a potential favourite, but the cost is so high....
Then I stumbled on Troels recently launched Fusion 22.
By all accounts the soundstage on the Satori MW16TX is large and very open, plus it is apparently a bit 'sweeter' sounding than an illuminator (not sure if this qualifies as rich/fuller sounding, but no way of truly knowing without listening). So sounds like a good move, and a good balance of traits, it also has state of the art clarity (better than the Revelator, probably similar to illuminator).
Now, the 3WC-15 mids were fantastic, but as well as the size of the speaker I also struggled with the soundstage height, there was no vertical dispersion and a very narrow vertical listening window. Troels doesn't publish crossover points on this latest designs, but the 3WC-15 is crossing at 2800 Hz (LR2) from the large 8inch midrange to the tweeter. So I can now deduce from this that (other than size) my gripe was likely to do with beaming of the 8inch driver. Crossing the smaller 6 inch Satori MW16TX over to the same TW29TXN-B-8 shouldn't have such issues.
Also, compared to the illuminator 7751, I should get that juicer, deeper bass that I'm looking for, and more sd in the mid-range and woofer. All in a relatively compact form.
Seems like the best balance of traits and a potential winner...
I follow your reasoning, and hope it works out.
You should still peruse the Open Source Monkey Box design from this forum which is similar in some regards; the horizontal and vertical dispersion measurements are more thoroughly documented, and the BOMa bit cheaper (oops take that back; it might be more).
You should still peruse the Open Source Monkey Box design from this forum which is similar in some regards; the horizontal and vertical dispersion measurements are more thoroughly documented, and the BOM
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I was aware of this, but hadn’t really looked at it… thanks for flagging! Polars look good 👍 I’ll do some research.
Hi, you would probably like to look this thread, it has interesting view from Lynn Olson about sibilance:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...parkling-treble-but-without-sibilance.190663/
Also, i have build some Troels speakers like discovery 861, and Faital 3wc-10. I like 861 much more as it is smoother, but also i remember that i didn't get this "organic warm smoothness" from 861 until i bypassed Silver-z caps in midrange with 2-3% value k42y-2 caps and alumen-z with duelund pure copper.
Here is what Troels think about these caps:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/300B.htm
"
Russian PIO (green), K42Y-2, 220 nF/500V
The three caps here were all tested against the Mundorf Silver/Gold cabs and these PIO caps really aren't bad at all. Surprisingly good, actually. The Mundorfs may excell by a fraction in overall resolution, but I might as well pick one of these two PIOs for smooth and balanced presentation.
The Silver Micas are some chunky beasts (178 nF) and to cut a long story short, I might as well leave these caps in the 300B amp for good. These cabs can be stripped from the metal case (magnetic) and put into some wooden containers filled with wax. I got two of the 178 nF for 17 US $. Two 220 nF Mundorfs are ~82 US $."