I'm not sure I follow. I normalised your chart of post 31 in my head..ie: I chose a few points and compared the level on axis with the angle where it is 6dB down, and there appears to be a trend toward around 80 degrees of coverage.
At first glance, your new plot also appears to support my post (39).
The guys in poland did not come up with that, we should give credit to the right people. The AVS group came up with it and the Poland group built the prototype for EricH over on AVS.
The thread started with looking to replace the QSC HPR-152i which is no longer available and it morphed into a "What would the BEST waveguide using Geddes principles look like" It started with EOS then moved onto SEOS to help get the CTC even closer. Zilch (may he RIP! 🙁 ) was a great contributor to the discussions along with AVS regulars.
The end result hopefully is a waveguide that is sold in the US for under $100. Hoping EricH from AVS figures it all out. Eric is doing some amazing flat pack builds already for incredible small Tapped horn designs and they are going to offer flat pack builds for Econo Waveguides.
All the specs are in the thread, right now the SEOS-15 should be coming to the US soon for measuring. I was hoping for a SEOS-18 but 15 is a great start.
Here is the thread that produced that above waveguide
Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - AVS Forum
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I was getting some of these for Col & I the other day in at DJ CITY (Dandenong South store)and they had to scratch around to find any stock, they mentioned they weren't restocking as they are moving away from DIY stuff, but no harm checking with them
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Yeah, the SEOS18 is what I'm most after, too. Can't say the SEOS10 does anything for me...
The resonance is most definitely audible. With DSP I could toggle the notch on and off.
D220Ti:
DE250
A high Q notch at 12khz effectively eliminate this issue. The waveguide is fine as could be heard and plotted really well with DE250 despite crappy $9 adapter.
DE250+plastic adapter
This becomes interesting as one could build a decent wg+cd combination, and allows easy upgrade as the funds permit.
This one was D220Ti+ JBL clone waveguide. I think it's either 1/6 or 1/9th octave smoothing and you clearly see the wiggle. They plotted well too, and this time with less wind.
This are the speakers in question:
Do you have a link where you describe the DSP mod? I've listened to a variety of compression drivers and find that I'm particularly sensitive to problems in the top octave. I know that most people are insensitive to that frequency span, but I seem to be sensitive.
I'm using DE250 in Gedlee Summas, but have tried Celestion CDX1-1425 and BMS 4540ND in my projects.
Speaking of Altec some posts back, could any of these make the shootout list? Great Plains Audio's HF Drivers
The shootouts took place in Australia last March using drivers currently available there at relatively low cost.
They are available from Parts express
QSC PL-000446GP Replacement Waveguide Horn for HPR152i 245-625
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Joined 2009
Paid Member
Interesting thread and good to see these parts are obtainable. I'm trying to learn more about CD design.
fyi - the 'cat is out of the bag' refers to the cat of nine tails, a whip stored in a bag and used to punish sailors in the British Navy of days past - no claws, but perhaps worse !
Speaking of which, I remember a discussion some time ago in which someone said he was able to mitigate the harshness of the D220 by removing the screen. Others argued with this, and he swore to it . I personally think it is an unlikely fix, but I am not aware of anyone who has actually done any kind measurement to verify or debunk it.
Perhaps someone with the means at some point will.
I had speakers with D220Ti and was very pleased with them. They were in Dayton 12" round waveguide, and with open back. I also removed the screen and filled a small gap between metal and horn with some putty and took some effort to really smooth it. I felt that it also smoothed the sound a tiny bit too.
However, the main reason for my satisfaction was that this waveguide is fine and I found a good EQ scheme for this combination. SE 2A3 amplifier also contributed to very open and smooth sound.
I now have B&C DE250 in SEOS 15" and like it even better. But that also needed EQ to get there. Still, I'm curious how would a metal CD get along with SEOS 15". I'm considering JBL 2426, and I would also open it on the back.
Can I expect that JBL 2426 would be an improvement over B&C DE 250? Working range is 1-20k, 48/db oct. digital crossover.
What I don't see here and didn't see much off with Zilch's stuff was the integration of the WG with a woofer (i.e. a complete FR that includes the xo point). I did one of his WG mods on a KLH 17 and struggled with the xo. Even Zilch admitted to me privately this as a problem.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Dayton Audio H110 1" Constant Directivity Horn 90x40
Has anyone got any experience with this horn? It looks to be a very nice horn and you can flip the polar's by rotating the unit. Wide and deep looks like it could be a winner. Best regards Moray James.
Has anyone got any experience with this horn? It looks to be a very nice horn and you can flip the polar's by rotating the unit. Wide and deep looks like it could be a winner. Best regards Moray James.
Pyle PH12s
Here is a very similar horn but a little larger than the Daton horn above. The Pyle PH12s which is also a square mouth horn and permits easy flipping of the horn polars. Am looking for any response info on this horn as it or the Dayton would look to make a fine two way. No response from Pyle so far not much info on their site see below. Would like to have response data so a proper CD shelf filter can be designed. Best regards Moray James.
Detailed Description of the PH12S:
PH12S
Pyle Pro PH12S Screw-On Type Constant Radiation Horn Model PH12S Part No. PH12S
Material: ABS Resin
Nominal Coverage Angle (HxV)-6 dB:90°x40°
Cut Off Frequency: 1000 Hz
Throat Diameter: 26mm
Mounting Type: Zinc Screw Insert 1 3/8''- 18 UNEF
Here is a very similar horn but a little larger than the Daton horn above. The Pyle PH12s which is also a square mouth horn and permits easy flipping of the horn polars. Am looking for any response info on this horn as it or the Dayton would look to make a fine two way. No response from Pyle so far not much info on their site see below. Would like to have response data so a proper CD shelf filter can be designed. Best regards Moray James.
Detailed Description of the PH12S:
PH12S
Pyle Pro PH12S Screw-On Type Constant Radiation Horn Model PH12S Part No. PH12S
Material: ABS Resin
Nominal Coverage Angle (HxV)-6 dB:90°x40°
Cut Off Frequency: 1000 Hz
Throat Diameter: 26mm
Mounting Type: Zinc Screw Insert 1 3/8''- 18 UNEF
Moray,
The horn looks good, throat transition seems smooth.
Saw your inquiries on AA also.
Having tackled making passive crossovers for various HF drivers, I would not attempt it without the horn/driver available for actual testing.
For instance, the CD compensation used in DJK's example for a JBL 2426 will not work well with a Eminence PSD 2002 (believe me, I tried😱), though the concept is valid, the values need to be quite different to arrive at the same target FR.
Just finished making crossovers for four monitors, three used Eminence PSD 2002 type one diaphragms (no longer available) and one type 2 diaphragm.
Eminence never changed the driver model number, but the response is very different, it would be nearly impossible to match the two drivers with different diaphragms passively.
I have little experience with Pyle, but cheap drivers tend to have different unit to unit response, another reason published specs, even if available in the detail needed to design a crossover, would still not insure the proper response.
Art
Thanks for the heads up. I was not thinking so much about drivers from Pyle or Dayton. I did get a response from Dayton but no real help. So I guess that this will be cut and try? Any further suggestions? I suppose I could look to the old EV products for something about this size with matching vertical and horizontal polars at about 40 - 50 degrees. That way I would have xover data available.
So what is the point of selling CD horns with almost zero data? Am I missing something here? Thanks very much for the input. Best regards Moray James.
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