I had a humorous conversation last weekend.
Visitor: What are those?
Me: Speakers
Visitor: What brand?
Me: I made them
Visitor: What brand did you copy?
Me: None, I did research and designed them. Would you like to hear them?
Visitor: Sure....those sound good. How many watts are they?
Me: How many do they need to be?
Visitor: I dont' know. How big is your amp? That's the amp right?
Me: Yeah, it's 8 watts, although it's only turned up a little so it might be pushing 1 or 2 watts.
Visitor: But I thought you had to have hundreds of watts?
Me: I guess not.
The point of this is a question. Is this an American phenomenon or do consumers have this false belief in other countries too?
Visitor: What are those?
Me: Speakers
Visitor: What brand?
Me: I made them
Visitor: What brand did you copy?
Me: None, I did research and designed them. Would you like to hear them?
Visitor: Sure....those sound good. How many watts are they?
Me: How many do they need to be?
Visitor: I dont' know. How big is your amp? That's the amp right?
Me: Yeah, it's 8 watts, although it's only turned up a little so it might be pushing 1 or 2 watts.
Visitor: But I thought you had to have hundreds of watts?
Me: I guess not.
The point of this is a question. Is this an American phenomenon or do consumers have this false belief in other countries too?
Oh its a funny old world I had a similar conversation myself with a m8 during secondary school.
I had just got a pair of mission 752 freedoms, this was before my time of making things!!, although that was soon to follow😀
I told one of my mates that id got em and it became his thing to tell ppl that I had just bought a pair of speakers that cost you new £580?? i cant remember, I payed £400 so I guess £580 hits the spot rite I know I got a reasonable deal.
Either way ppls reactions were like you spent what!, on loudspeakers! ure mad. But after the wow factor had dissapated the next question is how many watts are they.
Im like, ya'watt! (ha! sorry my bad) it doesnt matter how many watts they are, speakers dont have a watts, they use them up. Nah but how many watts are they! I had just said the dont have watts as per say, but yet they still persisted. So I then asked them, if I told you a figure, watt would it mean to you, because the number of watts a speaker can handle on its own tells you nothing. No No it doesnt matter just tell us how many watts they are, they were not going to understand I mean how many 15 ye olds do u you meet that understands about this kinda stuff? Either way I just gave in and said they can handle 125 watts, rite then they sed and that was it, didnt mean anything to them either!
I had just got a pair of mission 752 freedoms, this was before my time of making things!!, although that was soon to follow😀
I told one of my mates that id got em and it became his thing to tell ppl that I had just bought a pair of speakers that cost you new £580?? i cant remember, I payed £400 so I guess £580 hits the spot rite I know I got a reasonable deal.
Either way ppls reactions were like you spent what!, on loudspeakers! ure mad. But after the wow factor had dissapated the next question is how many watts are they.
Im like, ya'watt! (ha! sorry my bad) it doesnt matter how many watts they are, speakers dont have a watts, they use them up. Nah but how many watts are they! I had just said the dont have watts as per say, but yet they still persisted. So I then asked them, if I told you a figure, watt would it mean to you, because the number of watts a speaker can handle on its own tells you nothing. No No it doesnt matter just tell us how many watts they are, they were not going to understand I mean how many 15 ye olds do u you meet that understands about this kinda stuff? Either way I just gave in and said they can handle 125 watts, rite then they sed and that was it, didnt mean anything to them either!
The first watt is the most important.
PPL get caught up in the numbers game.I have seen car audio amps that claimed more output than the current avaliable.If you have efficent speakers then little power is required.
ron
PPL get caught up in the numbers game.I have seen car audio amps that claimed more output than the current avaliable.If you have efficent speakers then little power is required.
ron
Reading the history of audio I was getting the impression that Europe and Asia didn't fall into the same trap as American audio consumers/companies did. 
Yes ppl like to see large numbers in everything, from bank ballance, to pay cheque, to the top speed of their car, to how fast their PC is, to how many hours of sleep they can get tonite.
I have read somewhere that americans do suffer from this more then Europians(sp?) but I dont know if thats true or not. As long as something is set withing a defined limit, be it 1-10 and ppl want 10 or 1-1000 and ppl want the 1000, it doesnt matter as long as they have the toppest, most biggesst, fatest number!. Makes ppl feel in control, like they have the power!
Mwahahahahahahhahahaha my car puts out 100000 lemonstrikes per yulatar, ain that great! Whaddya mean that doesnt exist.
I have read somewhere that americans do suffer from this more then Europians(sp?) but I dont know if thats true or not. As long as something is set withing a defined limit, be it 1-10 and ppl want 10 or 1-1000 and ppl want the 1000, it doesnt matter as long as they have the toppest, most biggesst, fatest number!. Makes ppl feel in control, like they have the power!
Mwahahahahahahhahahaha my car puts out 100000 lemonstrikes per yulatar, ain that great! Whaddya mean that doesnt exist.
Judging by these huge Cadiallac SUVs with 22" wheels and Hummers I think it's more common here. 
Does anyone see a shift occurring? It seems that high efficiency is making a comeback, or is that wishful thinking?
Does anyone see a shift occurring? It seems that high efficiency is making a comeback, or is that wishful thinking?
not for the mass consumer market, at least over here
noone belives me when they listen my system and i tell this is much less than 1 Watt average you listen to...
noone belives me when they listen my system and i tell this is much less than 1 Watt average you listen to...
Well if we follow the same rules manufactures should make huge sales increases over the competition if efficiency increases because its a bigger number all over again!!!!!!!
I use to tell folks (about amp wattage), "it depends on how you measure it", and then make the mistake of trying to explain how the numbers can be played with.
Now I just say, "depends on how much I'm trying to sell 'em for".
Now I just say, "depends on how much I'm trying to sell 'em for".
"My car gets thirty-seven furlongs to the hogshead, and that's the way i likes it!!!" --Grandpa Simpson
Off course, ignorace can be bliss. I sometimes wish I could give up those sleepless nights thinking about my designs when I could just be content with wattage - and fall asleep already.
I had a younger type(18) over admiring and getting blown away with my 22watt gainclone/Fostex Fe206e TQWT, he asks"how many watts is the driver" to which i reply " i dont remember, but i can look it up "
he asks "how many watts are you using right now?" (smart kid) i answer "around 1". Well he threw a fit and said i was lying because NOTHING could sound like that with 1 watt.
I spent the rest of the day explaining elecronics and acoustical physics and by the end of the day he was a true convert.
I think what amazed him the most was the amount of cone movement vrs amount of bass.
ron
he asks "how many watts are you using right now?" (smart kid) i answer "around 1". Well he threw a fit and said i was lying because NOTHING could sound like that with 1 watt.
I spent the rest of the day explaining elecronics and acoustical physics and by the end of the day he was a true convert.
I think what amazed him the most was the amount of cone movement vrs amount of bass.
ron
This all reminds me of a day long ago when I worked in a pro audio rental shop. These Jamaican guys came in to rent a pair of full range speaker cabs.
Me want a rent a pair a 600 watt boxes fi DJ.
Sure, no problem. Do you need a power amp as well?
No mon, me have a Kenwood. Hundred watts each side. Me just need de big boxes fi go wit it.
The HF diaphragms cost them more than the power amp rental would have....
dooper
Me want a rent a pair a 600 watt boxes fi DJ.
Sure, no problem. Do you need a power amp as well?
No mon, me have a Kenwood. Hundred watts each side. Me just need de big boxes fi go wit it.
The HF diaphragms cost them more than the power amp rental would have....
dooper
This can be played both ways tho (the ignorance about wattage/sensitivity). When walking into a said "Hi-Fi" store, you can seize up immediately the sale person. If he mentions the wattage in the first minutes of his speech, then you are most probably facing an ignorant salesman in terms of audio.
I remember a couple of years back, I went to a real hi-fi store in my area with a friend that isn't much into audio and after about 5 hours of listening to different speakers he bought a pair of B&W Nautilus and a Classé amp. On the way back home, he asked me the reason why the first thing that is mentioned on the box of amps and speakers at futureshop is an astronomous watt rating and that on his set, he could not even find it on the box. In answer, I asked him if it would have changed his mind as much as hearing them did, he said that no. And from that day he knows that what matters is what you hear and not what is specced. But he did admit that prior to that day, he always shopped by looking at numbers. So my guess is that this "bigger number == better" behaviour is valid in Canada too...
Sébastien
I remember a couple of years back, I went to a real hi-fi store in my area with a friend that isn't much into audio and after about 5 hours of listening to different speakers he bought a pair of B&W Nautilus and a Classé amp. On the way back home, he asked me the reason why the first thing that is mentioned on the box of amps and speakers at futureshop is an astronomous watt rating and that on his set, he could not even find it on the box. In answer, I asked him if it would have changed his mind as much as hearing them did, he said that no. And from that day he knows that what matters is what you hear and not what is specced. But he did admit that prior to that day, he always shopped by looking at numbers. So my guess is that this "bigger number == better" behaviour is valid in Canada too...
Sébastien
I do have a side question that I have wondered about for a bit. On my amp volume level (H&K) the numbers are negative and get larger as you turn up the volume. Listening to music I have never gotten the volume past neg 20 with my 95db sensitive Fostex speakers.
I was under the impression that when the volume read zero then the amp was using one watt of power. Is this correct or has nothing to do with power and is an abitrary system?
I was under the impression that when the volume read zero then the amp was using one watt of power. Is this correct or has nothing to do with power and is an abitrary system?
With your amplifier, the negative numbers refer to the amount of attenuation. Without also considering the input level, those numbers speak very little about the output level.Tiggerfip said:
The big = better belief is common thru out Australia also.
tool49 said:
I walked into a local Hi-Fi shop (the best one we have in the city, and it is a very nice one, although does leave a bit to the imagination) and i was looking for an amp. I was pointed to a NAD 320BEE, which just came out .. the salesperson said that its 50 watts/side, to which he added: "which sounds little, but pay no attention to the numbers, just listen to the sound" ..
on the opposite side of the spectrum, a friend of mine was buying a home theatre receiver, and the salesman was upselling him a "better" one (more expensive) based on the fact that its heavier ..
nothing else .. just heavier
and literally the guy was saying "but its heavier, therefore its BETTER" .. no comment from me on that 🙂
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