Hi there !
I got a pair of Visaton B200 for my first try in building speakers. They will be powered by a tube amp 2x8watts : Elekit-Tu 8200.
My room is 20 x 23 feet (more or less) and 7,5 feet in height (with wooden beams on the ceiling)
I want the panels to be foldable, for obvious reasons.
This idea is coming from french internet site exploring accoustic : https://www.petoindominique.fr/php/plandesign.php
and has been realized by Christian . Size is about 3 feet high and 4 feet wide.
This one'a got two drivers but my will is to keep an only full-range driver
My first question is about the phase plug on B200 : where can i get it ? is it DIY ?
Second question : Dominique (see link above) says full range drivers absolutely need a correction in the medium curve and he propose to add a resistance (between 3 et 30 Ohms) , a self ( between 0.5 et 2.5 mH) and a capacitor (1 , 5 or 10 uF). Did anyone made any measurement with the B200 ?
I got a pair of Visaton B200 for my first try in building speakers. They will be powered by a tube amp 2x8watts : Elekit-Tu 8200.
My room is 20 x 23 feet (more or less) and 7,5 feet in height (with wooden beams on the ceiling)
I want the panels to be foldable, for obvious reasons.
This idea is coming from french internet site exploring accoustic : https://www.petoindominique.fr/php/plandesign.php
and has been realized by Christian . Size is about 3 feet high and 4 feet wide.
This one'a got two drivers but my will is to keep an only full-range driver
My first question is about the phase plug on B200 : where can i get it ? is it DIY ?
Second question : Dominique (see link above) says full range drivers absolutely need a correction in the medium curve and he propose to add a resistance (between 3 et 30 Ohms) , a self ( between 0.5 et 2.5 mH) and a capacitor (1 , 5 or 10 uF). Did anyone made any measurement with the B200 ?
I do’t make them anymore. A lathe, CNC, or 3D printer. If someone generates an STL file i will host it.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/B200-phase-plug.pdf
dave
If you use only B200 I recommend you bigger baffle, at least 1,25m by 1,6m. It will help it to make some bass.
To answer the second question, go to Visaton website and chech Solo 100 or Solo 50 projects. They have schematics for suitable correction network for B200.
Also, you can free download their Boxsim simulator, it has measured B200 response to work with, so you can try your own filter too.
To answer the second question, go to Visaton website and chech Solo 100 or Solo 50 projects. They have schematics for suitable correction network for B200.
Also, you can free download their Boxsim simulator, it has measured B200 response to work with, so you can try your own filter too.
I just tried to make the STL. If I make the two circles intersect and put the 2.8 mm radius on the curves in Fusion 360, the plug tip is 0.416 mm shorter. I can send the STL if that is OK.
Ours was 1.3 x 1 m. Worked well(except for the common hard to escape OB problem)
The wings will give a wider baffle with less visial impact but some cavity resonances between the wings.
The correction is to try to tame the high frequency issues with the B200. It can’t. The phase plugs pretty much make that correction redundant (mostly) fixing the driver.
dave
That discrepemcy in your STL is likely less than the unit-to-unit variations in the ones i made. Yes, either send it to me or attach to a post (you’ll have to zip it).
dave
dave
I agree Dave but, doesn’t it take some of the higher end out of the drivers?
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Of course it does but it is not that simple.
On-axis, the b200 has way too much HF energy. That is a 10dB rise above 1kHz. Off axis and you start wondering about adding a tweeter. There is no win.
Essentially what those plugs do is distribute that HF energy over a greater area, ie much better HF dispersion, gretaly flatteniing the response.
Visaton specifies 95dB, but they measure 89-90, which is right where they end up if you take the on-axis rise away.
B200 without plugs puts your head in a vise, too much one way and the top is tearing your head off, a little the other way and you have no top.
With plugs i can walk all the way across tthe back of the room and have very little change in HF perception.
Do note that the B200 dustcap is the hardest one to remove of any other driver i have done a dustcapextomy on.
dave
On-axis, the b200 has way too much HF energy. That is a 10dB rise above 1kHz. Off axis and you start wondering about adding a tweeter. There is no win.
Essentially what those plugs do is distribute that HF energy over a greater area, ie much better HF dispersion, gretaly flatteniing the response.
Visaton specifies 95dB, but they measure 89-90, which is right where they end up if you take the on-axis rise away.
B200 without plugs puts your head in a vise, too much one way and the top is tearing your head off, a little the other way and you have no top.
With plugs i can walk all the way across tthe back of the room and have very little change in HF perception.
Do note that the B200 dustcap is the hardest one to remove of any other driver i have done a dustcapextomy on.
dave
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It sounds more pronounced than that suggests (at least to me)
TW: have ehard stock ones with a ribbon tweeter, They did not integrate, it eas better turned off.
dave
TW: have ehard stock ones with a ribbon tweeter, They did not integrate, it eas better turned off.
dave
I thank you, Dave. I never liked the looks of the Lowther DX2 (mine is with the rolled whizzer) "pepper pot" plastic phase plugs, so I will try to make some new bullet shaped ones, maybe resulting in a little improvement in HF - not that I find it really necessary. Your drawing gave me a good starting point for experiments (with modifications, of course).
Hi,
As someone who had the OB with Visaton B200 (no longer, as I have moved), I can say that phase plug is a must. I made some out of cork, just for a quick trial, but they remained like that. Held by a magnet via two small screws.
But, I doubt that there will be anywhere near sufficient bass without a woofer, no matter the baffle size.
Mine used Eminece Beta 15, with EQ. Biamped. Visaton sounded best with Pass F2 amp.
So, start thinking about adding a woofer and another amp...😉
As someone who had the OB with Visaton B200 (no longer, as I have moved), I can say that phase plug is a must. I made some out of cork, just for a quick trial, but they remained like that. Held by a magnet via two small screws.
But, I doubt that there will be anywhere near sufficient bass without a woofer, no matter the baffle size.
Mine used Eminece Beta 15, with EQ. Biamped. Visaton sounded best with Pass F2 amp.
So, start thinking about adding a woofer and another amp...😉
Attachments
So i am gonna try the phase plug. I will ask a friend to make it with a wood lathe.
About the bass insufficiency, i might keep my subwoofer running.
where should i put the drivers ? 80 cm high is ok ? Is there any proportions to be respected between the place of the driver and the size of the front pannel ??
I agree with all Dave’s comments.
B200 stock is too beamy.
I tried first an egg shaped Styrofoam diffuser. It works OK
Then I tried Dave’s idea on phase plug (true, dissecting the dust cap is a bit difficult and risky but doable on a day with no coffee). That works too.
A back top firing tweeter is an option but needs a lot of testing
IMO adding a woofer helper is like Vix says a must.
Currently the 12” woofer is LP at 250Hz and the B200 is HP at 50Hz (both 2nd order Bessel through MiniDSP, also some equalization)
I am experimenting with integrating a third lower woofer
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/image-jpg.533600/
I may end with a single SLOB beneath each OB panel. I may have to make tests on this with open/sealed back side of the SLOB woofer
George
B200 stock is too beamy.
I tried first an egg shaped Styrofoam diffuser. It works OK
Then I tried Dave’s idea on phase plug (true, dissecting the dust cap is a bit difficult and risky but doable on a day with no coffee). That works too.
A back top firing tweeter is an option but needs a lot of testing
IMO adding a woofer helper is like Vix says a must.
Currently the 12” woofer is LP at 250Hz and the B200 is HP at 50Hz (both 2nd order Bessel through MiniDSP, also some equalization)
I am experimenting with integrating a third lower woofer
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/image-jpg.533600/
I may end with a single SLOB beneath each OB panel. I may have to make tests on this with open/sealed back side of the SLOB woofer
George
Attachments
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http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FAL/B200-surgery/B200-surgery.html
I have a MUG of turkish every day. Not really risky if you are careful.
dave