I've used neither the 3.5 or the 4 inch models, but I've used the TC 1 inch tweet with the 6.5 inch woofer in MTM configuration and, to my ear, they have a pretty decent sound. The crossover is simple, third order on the tweet and second order on the woofers at 3500Hz. The only extra parts needed were a series notch filter on the woofers and an impedance compensation network on the woofers too. I'm currently pondering using a variable lpad or a fixed lpad. Originally they were in a bass reflex enclosure but I sealed them to get tighter bass.
In terms of sounds, the voices are crystal clear, the bass is present and tight, not needing a sub. As for the highs, they are definitely the best part of the system. Defined and well placed spatially, they give the needed punch on most of my cds. I know, I know, this is all suggestive, but a couple of persons confirmed this after hearing them (and not being present at the time, I did not bias their review
).
Overall, for the price, the TC series from Vifa is definitely top notch! They are definitely overlooked.
Sébastien
In terms of sounds, the voices are crystal clear, the bass is present and tight, not needing a sub. As for the highs, they are definitely the best part of the system. Defined and well placed spatially, they give the needed punch on most of my cds. I know, I know, this is all suggestive, but a couple of persons confirmed this after hearing them (and not being present at the time, I did not bias their review
).Overall, for the price, the TC series from Vifa is definitely top notch! They are definitely overlooked.
Sébastien
coolkhoa said:
If this is going to be a two way speaker, without any kind of high pass crossover then the 3/4" tweeter will probably be more than able to keep up with the output of the 3.5" mid-woofer for reasonable (>3kHz) crossover points. If the 3.5" midwoofer is to be used as a dedicated midrange, at 500Hz and up, then you might want to move to the 1" tweeter if you like your music loud.
The 1" tweeter is a fine unit, I've used it too. It should be flush mounted....
Scott
coolkhoa said:
If you don't mind a unasked for suggestion....
Use the non-flush mounted TC woofer frame to your advantage. Overlap the woofer and tweeters to keep the center to center spacing as close as absolutely possible. Watch where you have to put the driver mounting holes though, unless you don't mind drilling extra holes in your tweeter flange. I have done this in the past with much success. (Drilled extra holes in a tweeter flange...and overlapped woofer and tweeter..)
Scott
After some calculations based on Vifa's published specs and with a Qb of 0.707, the following sealed-box enclosure volumes resulted:
TC08 3.5" shielded 8-ohm: 0.16 cu ft (4.5 L)
TC11 4.5" shielded 8-ohm: 0.08 cu ft (2.3 L)
TC14 5.5" shielded 8-ohm: 0.25 cu ft (7.1 L)
The TC11's small volume is attractive for a computer speaker, eh? Can this small volume be used realistically?
Any comments appreciated.
TC08 3.5" shielded 8-ohm: 0.16 cu ft (4.5 L)
TC11 4.5" shielded 8-ohm: 0.08 cu ft (2.3 L)
TC14 5.5" shielded 8-ohm: 0.25 cu ft (7.1 L)
The TC11's small volume is attractive for a computer speaker, eh? Can this small volume be used realistically?
Any comments appreciated.
coolkhoa said:
In that size space you'll be hard pressed to mount the xover drivers!
Make sure you are comparing apples to apples, what are the predicted F3's, Sensitivity, and Displacement limited SPL's of the three options. I think you'll find that the 3.5" will be displacement limited, the 4.5" will have really low sensitivity (or very high F3) and the TC14 might be okay. I haven't run the numbers, though, so this is just a guess.
Seriously, watch out for the box size and mounting crossovers, I designed a pair of time aligned minimonitors once, couldn't fit the crossovers in the box. Not smart on my part.
Scott
out of curiosity i tried modelling the 3 drivers
for some reason bassbox outputs a sealed box of about 1.22 litres for the TC08 and TC11 which is insanely small, and rather high F3s of approx 140hz. upon checking the parameters, the "bar graph" which determines closed or vented recommendations shows the bar at its absolute right, that is vented side only.
i cant recall off the top of my head the TS eqns to calculate this.
the TC14 however came up with 2.7lt F3 110hz, which again is too small.
im assuming can these drivers only be used in vented applications?
for some reason bassbox outputs a sealed box of about 1.22 litres for the TC08 and TC11 which is insanely small, and rather high F3s of approx 140hz. upon checking the parameters, the "bar graph" which determines closed or vented recommendations shows the bar at its absolute right, that is vented side only.
i cant recall off the top of my head the TS eqns to calculate this.
the TC14 however came up with 2.7lt F3 110hz, which again is too small.
im assuming can these drivers only be used in vented applications?
I've used the 6.5" Vifa TC that they maded for Infinity (a Parts Expess Buyout) and I've been very happy with them. I made a vented MTM in a roughly 3.5 cubic foot vented enclosure crossed over first order to a Silver Flute planar tweeter. The bass is very impressive and the mids come out very well. The x-over took some tweaking, and it's still not completely flat, but the speakers came out sounding very good.
I've also used the 4.5" with good results. These things can put out a fair amount of good quality sound. Just be careful tightening the screws when you mount them. I had one crack on me.
Cheers,
Zach
I've also used the 4.5" with good results. These things can put out a fair amount of good quality sound. Just be careful tightening the screws when you mount them. I had one crack on me.
Cheers,
Zach
phs said:
The numbers for the TC11 and TC14 sound about right for what I've built. The port seems long on the TC11 though, you could probably go with a smaller diameter. The TC14 made its way into one of my professional designs, that's how much I think of it.
The TC11 didn't only because 5.5" is about as small as you can go and still get enough sound to please those who like it moderately loud.
Thinking about it, the TC11 or TC14 and the 1" TC tweeter would make a killer pc speaker. Due to the nearfield application I would definately overlap the frames as much as possible, and anyone trying it might find themselves shelving the tweeter down more than you think would be necessary to get a believable tonal balance. Of course, I don't play any kind of computer games, so maybe for those you would like it a little brighter...I don't know.
Scott
ScottRHinson said:
I would like to know more about your professional design that you have there.
The TC11 would be perfect for nearfield use in a computer "monitor." (That was my intended usage in the first place.) I'm moving away from the TC08: if you're going to have a separate tweeter, why not go with a bigger woofer? The TC14 is a little too big, though.
As for the subject of whether or not computer gamers like brighter treble, I, for one, don't.
coolkhoa said:
I would like to know more about your professional design that you have there.
The TC11 would be perfect for nearfield use in a computer "monitor." (That was my intended usage in the first place.) I'm moving away from the TC08: if you're going to have a separate tweeter, why not go with a bigger woofer? The TC14 is a little too big, though.
As for the subject of whether or not computer gamers like brighter treble, I, for one, don't.
The home page for my company is in my profile, the model of the speaker is the Debrio.
I've done a design that hasn't quite passed all of its listening tests with the TC11 and TC1" tweeter (shielded) that was a true 1'st order acoustical, time aligned minimonitor. The crossover is insanely complex (due to the nature of it being 1'st order acoustical) and it sounds pretty good. It's not good for a near-field application, and it tended to have issues with piano/violin based music...so it hasn't seen the light of day to this point.
Scott
coolkhoa said:
Whoops, my bad...I wasn't clear, I tried to keep the message short because I was short on time. Now I'm just really tired, so if I don't make any sense, blame the lack of sleep!
The issues I had with the design were because I was asking too much of the tweeter due to the first order acoustical slopes. It wasn't advertised as a high excursion tweeter suitable for that use, and it isn't suitable for that. If you place a 2'nd order acoustical slope filter on it, or higher, it becomes a FINE sounding driver, one well worth the cost, and quite a bargin in my opinion. (You may also want to look at the newer SEAS 27TDC and 27TDFC tweeters, they sound even better, they are cousins of the vaunted Millenium tweeter.)
I think a TC11/TC1" would make a very good nearfield combination, both drivers individually have good clean sounds to them. It would then fall to the crossover design, which would not be trivial. Of course it isn't trivial for ANY nearfield design, it will just take some patience and some experimentation. If you don't have measurement gear I would suggest you look for crossover parts on ebay and stock up on a bunch of values within 50 to 100% of the nominal crossover values you decide on. Then swap and try things to your hearts content until you get it right.
I do think the TC14 is a better driver, with better bass response. But keep in mind, my application is a high end, moderately priced bookshelf/monitor speaker with HT abilities... Totally different application. The TC14 needs between 10 and 16L of cabinet volume to sound it's best, that's kind of big for a PC speaker. It is $2.00 cheaper than the TC11 though, kind of odd.
I hope that helps!
Scott
Navin,
I just built a TC18/TC26 MLTL as my first diy... xo at 3000, 2nd order LR. (Lesson learned - money saved on inexpensive speakers will be more than lost on trying to get the xo right!) I'm looking at tweaking the xo now.
The TC26 tweeter has its resonance at 1150 Hz. XO at 2000 seems a little close to resonance, esp. for first order, though it would help the TC18's rise at 1900 (not to mention the peak at 4000). Did you do anything special to filter?
mk
I just built a TC18/TC26 MLTL as my first diy... xo at 3000, 2nd order LR. (Lesson learned - money saved on inexpensive speakers will be more than lost on trying to get the xo right!) I'm looking at tweaking the xo now.
The TC26 tweeter has its resonance at 1150 Hz. XO at 2000 seems a little close to resonance, esp. for first order, though it would help the TC18's rise at 1900 (not to mention the peak at 4000). Did you do anything special to filter?
mk
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