Used cable or new DIY cable

[Scottmoose]

Sure, that's no mystery. Most Naim amplifiers (NVA & some others too) don't, or at least didn't, have an output Zobel, or if / when they did, no Thiele network so they needed some series inductance from the speaker wire for stability. Hence the geometry of their NACA5 wire, and if an alternative is wanted, why a widely spaced parallel feeder type like most Van den Hul, Van Damme's hi-fi wire etc. tends to be needed -if you put on something low inductance (and therefore high capacitance) the damn thing can go into oscillation. In extreme cases, fare thee well to the amplifier. In less extreme, it just doesn't sound very happy (because it isn't).

 

[Netlist]

Tellurium Q

Fancy, but not a single spec to be found. They rely on (paid?) reviews.

Hugo

 

[Scottmoose]

Exactly. They are very careful indeed to avoid, under any circumstances, any reference to technicalities.

Now I wonder why that might be... 😉

 

[krivium]

Tellurium Q -they're a good example. 'The first cables designed to combat phase distortion' [no less]. That's what they say [their italics].

What?! it would not let sound of Kawai K-5000 or even older Casio CZ series synth pass through!
Bummer. 🙂

 

[geoffkait]

I had no idea this is a peer review required site. My bad. I already explained how to measure it.

 

[Scottmoose]

I know how to measure it. As I say, I've done so many times without finding anything like that. I just assumed, since you mentioned it as a piece of factual information, that you had, or could point to, some evidence, since presumably you must have some. As you say -my bad.

 

[Netlist]

I had no idea this is a peer review required site. My bad. I already explained how to measure it.

If you inflate the tires of your car, wouldn't you also like to have a meter instead of stamping your foot on the tire to see if it's hard enough? 😉

 

[bucks bunny]

No need for fancy measure equipment. Trust your ears to check tyre pressure🙂

 

[jan.didden]

With speaker cables there have been cases where additional capacitance or inductance or a combination have been added to impact the load to the amp.
That, if taken to extremes, can make audible changes from even the most stable amplifier. All with the aim to introduce an audible difference to common cables.
And of course, if a $5k cable sounds different, it is because it it sooo much better,
Marketing 101: make sure you are differentiated and expensive and everybody will think you're better.

Jan

 

[jan.didden]

I had no idea this is a peer review required site.

It's not. Anybody can spout any unsubstantiated BS with impunity.
Some of us are naïve enough to ask for some proof or backup or even a reasonabe logical explanation.
But yes, anything goes.

Jan

 

[benb]

Thesedays it should be easy enough to make an amplifier output detection circuit to be able to sense (for example) an (perversely) excessive capacitive load that then turns on a red light to indicate "Cable Fault" (as opposed to the amplifier's output devices oscillating at a supersonic frequency and promptly melting, just after the tweeter voice coils melt). It would be odd (though not surprising) if this circuit activated only with expensive "high fidelity" speaker cables, yet did fine with inexpensive cables and everything in the Home Depot electrical aisle.

"But that's why we have Sales Engineers on the floor, to let you know what combination of receivers, cables and loudspeakers are compatible and work together to make sure you get Teh Best System For The Price."

 

[geoffkait]

I suppose in a pinch one could always listen. But of course that requires effort.

 

[Galu]

How do speaker cable companies determine the directionality of a 100m spool of cable?

By looking at the surface texture of the copper strands?

At 5,000x magnification, we can see the striations created when the wire was drawn through the sizing die.

So there's your directional difference.

The poor little electrons find it harder to clamber up those jagged striations than to slide down them!

 

[Scottmoose]

I suppose in a pinch one could always listen. But of course that requires effort.

There's something else that requires effort. Back to the really interesting bit, you say, as an engineering fact:

There is slightly less voltage drop across the wire in the ”correct“ direction compared to the other direction.

This is very interesting, since I've never measured any voltage drop with the wire 'in different directions' myself and to the best of my recollection, I've never seen this statement made before either -since the signal is AC the idea itself seems a bit peculiar. Either way though, I'm always willing to learn, so again, could you please point me (us) to the information showing this difference?

 

[wayne]

Galen Gareis at Belden cables has written some technical articles about the Iconoclast series of cables he designed.
He knows a thing or two about wire having spent decades at the company designing from DC to GHz. The cables are actually very good no snake oil or virgins sacrificed.

 

[Markw4]

I didn't believe that cables could make a difference of a certain kind, but after several demonstrations I had to change my mind.

You're not necessarily wrong. AC cables can be designed to act like power line filters. Wouldn't expect it to deepen the bass exactly, but a good filter might help remove some unwanted 'brightness' to the sound of your bass caused by EMI/RFI noise from your AC power line getting into your amp. A good power conditioner will do the same trick and probably do it better than a power cable. A very good one if you can find it would be a used "Monster HTPS 7000 MkII" from ebay.

Regarding other cables such as speaker cables, zip cord can be modified to work quite well if you know how. There is a whole thread that eventually figures it out, although that was not the original purpose of the thread. Suggest to look for posts by Hans Polak in the thread at: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/zip-cord-for-speaker-test.371099/page-21#post-7257766

BTW, if there is too much noise in this thread from people telling you that are imagining stuff that can't be real, please feel free to PM if you would like to discuss in a less noisy environment.

 

[JMFahey]

In an AC circuit it’s true the electrons wiggle back and forth. They wiggle back and forth according to the instantaneous audio frequency. But recall there are two wires for an AC circuit + and - . Thus, when electrons move on the + wire toward the speaker it makes the speaker diaphragm move outward. And when electrons move toward the speaker on the - wire it causes the speaker diaphragm to move inward. This is why you would ideally want the best sounding direction of both + and - wires to be in the direction toward the speaker. Obviously all other cables and interconnects and fuses should follow the same logic. And that’s why the argument that wire cannot be directional in an AC circuit is incorrect.

NONSENSE.

 

[JMFahey]

There is slightly less voltage drop across the wire in the ”correct“ direction compared to the other direction. Cable companies can either measure or listen to the first length of cable as it comes off the big spool. Then they know how to deal with the rest of the spool. Fuse companies usually tell customers to try the fuse both ways.

NONSENSE.

 

[JMFahey]

I suppose in a pinch one could always listen. But of course that requires effort.

Measuring is exact, neutral and repeatable for consistency.
100 people looking at a meter display will see the exact same number.

Listening is unreliable, unrepeatable, inconsistent, 100 people will hear 100 different ways, but that´s not the point, worst is that anybody can freely claim anything they fancy, even the most ridiculous statement.

 

[newvirus2008]

In an AC circuit ....the electrons wiggle back and forth.

Replace with move / travel.

.... back and forth according to the instantaneous audio frequency.

Replace with 'polarity of the voice coil current'.

But recall there are two wires ... + and - .

Yes Sir !!

Thus, when electrons move on the + wire toward the speaker it makes the speaker diaphragm move outward. And when electrons move toward the speaker on the - wire it causes the speaker diaphragm to move inward.

Not necessarily, the connection between polarity (+/-) and direction of cone travel is only a convention, and some companies like Eminence and JBL have often violated it.

This is why you would ideally want the best sounding direction of both + and - wires to be in the direction toward the speaker. Obviously all other cables and interconnects and fuses should follow the same logic.

The issue with this one is that the very same electrons that appear on the '+' wire also do so on the '-' wire as they travel through the voice coil (in both directions).