Hi everyone,
I'm working on a handheld Raspberry Pi project and I'm looking for a USB Dac. I need an USB cause I dont have more GPIOS and I am comfortable with it.
So, do you have suggestion for a DIY project with a good DAC chip to make a simple USB dac? Something with schematics I can implement in my diy circuit board.
I have a C102S+ USB dac in my hand but I'm here cause I want something more audiophile like. Something of more quality. However I'm a noob, and new to this world, I only heard about Sabre and AK DAC chips that are very very good, but I dont know where to start.
If someone could help me, I'm very thankful. I want to learn more about this nice world, I accept every critic I know it will come
I'm working on a handheld Raspberry Pi project and I'm looking for a USB Dac. I need an USB cause I dont have more GPIOS and I am comfortable with it.
So, do you have suggestion for a DIY project with a good DAC chip to make a simple USB dac? Something with schematics I can implement in my diy circuit board.
I have a C102S+ USB dac in my hand but I'm here cause I want something more audiophile like. Something of more quality. However I'm a noob, and new to this world, I only heard about Sabre and AK DAC chips that are very very good, but I dont know where to start.
If someone could help me, I'm very thankful. I want to learn more about this nice world, I accept every critic I know it will come
When it comes to to dacs making something good (you said 'audiophile') and making something simple from a schematic are two different things, especially for a noobie.
Given the foregoing could you say what you want most out of the project, a comprehensive diy experience or a close-to-audiophile dac? Also, how much time to you want to spend? Costs can add up for parts, cases, power supplies, etc., have you considered that?
Given the foregoing could you say what you want most out of the project, a comprehensive diy experience or a close-to-audiophile dac? Also, how much time to you want to spend? Costs can add up for parts, cases, power supplies, etc., have you considered that?
First of all thanks for the answer!
So, I want something I can build by my self, in order to implement it on my board but that is close to audiophile DAC. As I said I have on my build a CM102S DAC usb for the audio, like this https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5052505190_07d7ec5903_z.jpg, but I'm looking for something more, to improve the audio of my board. I expect suggestion of something similar, an USB dongle like the Dragonfly for example but more simple (I prefer stay on double layer PCB board). The only need to respect is the power input that is 5v and the USB interface, like the one linked.
No worries about time and technical difficulties, I can go deep into it. I hope to have been clear!
So, I want something I can build by my self, in order to implement it on my board but that is close to audiophile DAC. As I said I have on my build a CM102S DAC usb for the audio, like this https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5052505190_07d7ec5903_z.jpg, but I'm looking for something more, to improve the audio of my board. I expect suggestion of something similar, an USB dongle like the Dragonfly for example but more simple (I prefer stay on double layer PCB board). The only need to respect is the power input that is 5v and the USB interface, like the one linked.
No worries about time and technical difficulties, I can go deep into it. I hope to have been clear!
The PCM29xx series of chips are simple and if you are careful with your power supply the 2902 can sound pretty good. It is used in some entry-level recording interfaces from Behringer, who basically do nothing about the power side. The PCM2702 is very good as a one-chip solution, but is difficult to find. Look at the Alien DAC project as an example.
If you like something with a little better quality, the PCM5122 is a very good project but it's not a one-chip solution, unless you use the GPIO (in which case, it is). You need a chip to translate USB to I2S.
If you like something with a little better quality, the PCM5122 is a very good project but it's not a one-chip solution, unless you use the GPIO (in which case, it is). You need a chip to translate USB to I2S.
The best way to get/implement USB is probably just to buy a USB to I2S board that comes with good quality clocks. A couple of options:
I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
USB digital interface AS318B PCM1536 DSD1024 compatible with Amanero Italy XMOS to I2S|Digital-to-Analog Converter| - AliExpress
Then use the I2S signals as input to a dac. In addtion, most good quality modern dacs have internal control registers that are accessed over I2C bus. Therefore, dac boards generally have an MCU of some type. Amanero works fine for one example. Just something that has an I2C library handy.
PCB should at least 4-layers for a good dac. Sorry. 4-layers was recommended back in the days of 16-bit dacs. Better dacs may use 6 or more layers.
There is a long thread here about modifying cheap Chinese ES9038Q2M dac boards (ESS Sabre). Lots to know if thinking of making a custom PCB.
For someone that really wants audiophile sound quality there is AKM's AK4499. I'm sure people would like someone to layout a PCB for a basic AK4499 implementation. Share the Gerbers and you will be appreciated.
I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
USB digital interface AS318B PCM1536 DSD1024 compatible with Amanero Italy XMOS to I2S|Digital-to-Analog Converter| - AliExpress
Then use the I2S signals as input to a dac. In addtion, most good quality modern dacs have internal control registers that are accessed over I2C bus. Therefore, dac boards generally have an MCU of some type. Amanero works fine for one example. Just something that has an I2C library handy.
PCB should at least 4-layers for a good dac. Sorry. 4-layers was recommended back in the days of 16-bit dacs. Better dacs may use 6 or more layers.
There is a long thread here about modifying cheap Chinese ES9038Q2M dac boards (ESS Sabre). Lots to know if thinking of making a custom PCB.
For someone that really wants audiophile sound quality there is AKM's AK4499. I'm sure people would like someone to layout a PCB for a basic AK4499 implementation. Share the Gerbers and you will be appreciated.
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I have one. Clocks are real, used with AK4499 eval board it sounds remarkably like Topping D90 which uses the same model clocks. No mistaking them for NDK SDA. I got the driver download link by asking the seller for it. For some unknown reason the clocks appeared on Tabao first for about 28-cents each. Now the price has gone up. Order on the way now from Aliexpress for a few loose clocks. Will test them when I get them. If the USB board is modded to run off clean power like some people mod real Amanero boards, then I would say sound quality is superior to JL Sounds I2SoverUSB.
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From this topic: New USB 2.0 digital audio interface card
It is tools and manual https://www.xingcore.com/resource/xing_usb_manual_and_tools_u30.zip
With this tool eg. you can change VID & PID and use other drivers.
It is tools and manual https://www.xingcore.com/resource/xing_usb_manual_and_tools_u30.zip
With this tool eg. you can change VID & PID and use other drivers.
Guys, you have been so nice with your precise answer.
I'm very inspired from your suggestions. Although I have to say that I prefer to stay on something less complicated. I need only something that is plug and play like the Cmedia CM102s USB dac and that is better than it.
I found a lot of project with PCM dacs, and if they are better than CM102s, I would go with them. I would like have something with AK4499 but dealing with drivers, additional boards (i2s) is complicated for me. In this case I would like something like iBasso DC02 that has this Dac and it seems plug and play.
I'm very inspired from your suggestions. Although I have to say that I prefer to stay on something less complicated. I need only something that is plug and play like the Cmedia CM102s USB dac and that is better than it.
I found a lot of project with PCM dacs, and if they are better than CM102s, I would go with them. I would like have something with AK4499 but dealing with drivers, additional boards (i2s) is complicated for me. In this case I would like something like iBasso DC02 that has this Dac and it seems plug and play.
In such case it looks interesting. Do you use in WASAPI or ASIO mode?
I would appreciate for a link to the clocks, please, and your further feedback, thanks.
[EDIT] Now after re-reading I understand, extra clocks can be ordered with a board.
@PJotr25. I expect that a tool can be also used to report to the host a true DAC capabilities, correct?
@Wilmos. A board should work with a standard built-in UAC2.0 Windows driver (one of the latest win10 built is required). You still need drivers when using ASIO interface (if you want a native DSD transfers, that is the only way).
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The PCM2902 will do what you need. If you can find a 2702, even better but remember to at least separate analog and digital regulators, and use ferrite beads on the supply lines.
You should also add a post filter. It makes a big difference.
ASIO drivers in use here. Clocks at: 5pcs 100% new and orginal AS318 ACCUSILICON 2520 Active SMD Crystal 2025 49.152M 49.1520MHZ|Kitchen Cabinet Parts & Accessories| - AliExpress
Audio is a game of seriously decreasing gains. If you only want something "close to audiophile" which fully runs from USB, something like this might be enough: PCM5102 USB DAC for sennheiser HD650 - request for design critique Scroll down to post 8 for the pcb files. In diverse meetings with hifi friends, it was well received for such a simple setup (pcm2707+pcm510*). The pcm510* serie doesn't have crazy specs but these dacs are really pleasing to listen to.
Thanks! Is this a better way than Cm102s? Anyway I don't find the BOM list and the schematic (but the images attached in thread)
This tool it is in English... But I got a connection in 'engineering mode' with the card only in Windows7.
It is interesting it isn't xmos but when you change VID & PID eg. for JLsound card you can install drivers for JLsound and it's work...
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The 'engineering mode' driver can be installed in Windows 10, but driver signing enforcement has to be disabled at least briefly. There are instructions on how to do that in Chinese, or one can Google for instructions in English. Once the driver is installed then driver signing enforcement can be re-enabled.
One thing to keep in mind is that people vary in their tolerance of dac quality. Some people are quite happy with the dacs on their PC motherboards. Other people go through a convoluted process of buying dacs based on measurements and finding out the sound is still not pleasant enough. More and more expensive dacs are tried until a satisfactory one is arrived at. All the dacs that weren't good enough are then seen as a waste of time and money. You might save yourself something in the long run if you can figure out where you are in that dac user spectrum sooner rather than later.
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