Upgrading the Sony XA5400es sacd player

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#21
stephensank said:
I know Marce won't like me saying this, but it is a repeatable & verifiable fact- New caps, especially electrolytics, need "break-in time". At least 200 hours of running, ideally music-playing, to get close to final sound, and I have confirmed repeatedly that it takes over 600 hours to get to final sound, regardless of cap brand(ignoring brands I consider too unreliable to use, such as Elna, Rubycon, Matsushita/Panasonic, Sanyo, where I don't care how long it takes to break them in, 'cause they will too soon be breaking down). Before break-in, a good lytic, such as Nichicon or Nippon Chemicon, whether on supply lines or signal path, will sound coarse or otherwise not good.
As for changing values of the caps around the dac chip, I can tell you from experience that bigger(uf value) is always going to be better on any supply pins. You just don't want to increase more than 3 or 4x on the non-supply, i.e., servo decouple, etc.
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Hmmm verifiable, how come very sensitive equipment works straight away with no changes... and no capacitor break in, I do beg to differ on this.
 
#22
simsalabim said:
Hi stephen,
Thanks for your info, i wasn't aware of that the electrolytics needed so much time to do their thing right.
If it stays anywhere near what it sounds like now, i won't be happy, but i'll give it sone time.
But have you looked at the values in the picture?
What is your opinion then? E.g. the voltage 6.3V oposed to the 10V? Isn't this value that crucial either?

Thanks
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Your ears break in not the caps🙂
 
#23
stephensank said:
I'd have to "decode" the board drawing to know which caps are doing which jobs for the dac. If you post the relevant section of the actual schematic diagram, I'd be more easily able to comment.
As for voltage rating, the only thing that matters is going with same or higher voltage rating, although I have to say I am not comfortable with 6.3V caps unless they are Nichicon. I've found that 6.3V caps from other brands are a whole lot less reliable than 10V+ of same brand, regardless of actual operating voltage.
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if you look at the device data sheet, you can clearly see the caps in question are the decouplers.
I will agree on voltage for electros, the higher the voltage rating (within reason the better) 2x operating voltage should be minimum more if size permits.
 
#24
marce said:
Your ears break in not the caps🙂
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You're very reliable, Marce.

I'm going to attempt the probably impossible, and try to make a dent in your rigid perception.

Think about a new electrolytic. The positive plate is chemically formed on first charge as a skin formed out of the electrolyte. Just how perfectly can this skin possibly be on first forming? Does it not stand to reason that the molecular structure of this skin can rectifiy itself of defects over first few hundred hours of charge/discharge cycling? Does it not also make sense that this self-correction would be too subtle in effect to be measurable via conventional means?

Just my pet theory about why electrolytics absolutely exhibit audible break-in over the course of 20+ years of testing for this effect.
 
#25
I know🙂
They do form but I believe it is a matter of minutes, I have been looking through my documents as I do have some papers from a major manufacturer regarding this but cant find it in my 'well organised' library...Even if they do change, I would imagine the amount is very little after the initial forming...
 
#26
Okay i am a bit further.
Localised the problem causing the 'not so good' sound.
I had one capacitor short and so one coupling cap was still the original, today got a new one and changed the original and.. yes this sound is the sound i know, but only better, very clear to my ears that there is more detail and the bass is tighter.

So eventually, this mod was succesfull to my ears.

Next will be that i will see if a different opamp could be benifitial.
Any sugestions?

Thanks for all the help so far, and although people might differ in approach of our hobby, in the end it is the music as language which almost everyone appreciates!
Cheers, Simon
 
#27
If you must have opamps, which I've learned to avoid, to my ears, there is nothing better, when properly power-supplied, than the B-B OPA134/2134/4134. Only opamp that has real tonal richness without being euphonically colored(OPA627, far more expensive, extremely euphonically colored, best example) and very transparent without being clinical or dry.
 
#28
I'll stay out of the cap debate 😀 but opamps... I've come to hold the LM4562 in very high regard. For "euphonically coloured" I would recommend the OPA2604. Used correctly this can deliver a fantastic listener experience. I have used the OPA2134 to replace some OPA2604's and although I lived with them for some months I always seemed aware that the overall experience lacked the magic of the 2604. In the end I then tried the 4562 and moved that up to be my number #1 recommend for most situations. These were used as straightforward gain blocks in a preamp, not I/V etc in a CD player.
 
#29
Op-amps can be interesting, I have seen analogue (measurement) designs fail because purchasing has bought a similar but not exactly the same device, and the analogue has measurements have failed, we also had a change of die in a device (they changed process and shrunk the die) that caused issues with the analogue.
 
#32
Mooly said:
In the end I then tried the 4562 and moved that up to be my number #1 recommend for most situations. These were used as straightforward gain blocks in a preamp, not I/V etc in a CD player.
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Thanks Mooly for your input,
so far the LM4562

Any others? also taking into account that these will need to be interchangeable with the OPA2132ua which are in my player.

For your info there are 3 OPA in my player, please see the attached schematics.
Do i need to change all 3? Please note that i only use the unbalanced outputs.
 

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#37
huguesb said:
What about replacing the iec power connector with one with a ground and connecting the ground to the chassis?

I never understood why there was no ground on that cpd.
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Hi hugue,

i have just done that and think i hear a small improvement in clarity.
will remain carefull in such statements, although there have been a few instances i have been surprised with mods i did not have any expectations from and did change and in many cases to my ears improved the soundstage, depth etcetc.
 
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