I have been reading about upgrading crossovers and thought i'd take mine apart to see whats in it.
My speakers are 3 way, the largest coil is for the low freq. with no cap or resistor.
The mid freq has 4.7k 100v on it.
The high freq has 3.3k 100v on it.
What would you recommend I buy to improve this?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
My speakers are 3 way, the largest coil is for the low freq. with no cap or resistor.
The mid freq has 4.7k 100v on it.
The high freq has 3.3k 100v on it.
What would you recommend I buy to improve this?
You'd need to measure everything before you do anything!
For me, Mundorf Supreme caps was a very big step forward in my focal xovers. Will definitely be a step up looking at those film caps in their!
Better coils once you've measured too maybe!
For me, Mundorf Supreme caps was a very big step forward in my focal xovers. Will definitely be a step up looking at those film caps in their!
Better coils once you've measured too maybe!
I'd leave it alone, the caps used are polypropylene to start with and the inductors appear to be air cored so generally it's pretty good. You could try rebuilding the existing components onto a board spacing the coils further apart.
The inductors all have an element of resistance.. either measure them or leave them. These are air-core inductors so you would likely have little if any benefit in replacing them.
The cap's however are can be replaced without measurement as long as you know their value (..which is usually listed on the each cap).
Look to Tony's Cap test here for potential cap replacements.. also consider by-passing with much smaller value "premium" caps:
Humble Homemade Hifi
Definitely consider moving the crossover "out" of the loudspeaker and into another purpose-built box and platform of it's own.
Wiring and connectors can also have some impact on the result.
The cap's however are can be replaced without measurement as long as you know their value (..which is usually listed on the each cap).
Look to Tony's Cap test here for potential cap replacements.. also consider by-passing with much smaller value "premium" caps:
Humble Homemade Hifi
Definitely consider moving the crossover "out" of the loudspeaker and into another purpose-built box and platform of it's own.
Wiring and connectors can also have some impact on the result.
The inductors on these speakers are wrapped round a solid core not hollow if thats what you mean by air cored?
Also why do those caps say 3.3k 100v? I thought caps were measured in uf?
How would you go about setting up new crossovers, purchasing all new components?
Also why do those caps say 3.3k 100v? I thought caps were measured in uf?
How would you go about setting up new crossovers, purchasing all new components?
Thats pretty much the same advice I recived when I started to mess with my own x overs. Fortunately I ignored this advise and replaced all my caps poly's and horrid elco's with Mundorf Supreme and transformed the speakers into something quite outstanding.
The solid part is the ferrite. Air cores are better. If you are looking to upgrade to air cores which are normally much larger, you'd be better off building someting off board. You would need an LCR meter to measure the original coils in order to ID for replacement.
Are all the caps the same? 3.3uF is the value K is the tolerance (10% I think)
If you are looking for a quick win, I'd suggest changing the caps to something better for a start. Although those poly caps are better than a lot of std x over caps, they are still very cheap components.
Mundorf Supreme can be found here but they are not cheap!!! Rest assured, they are worth it. Check out the link in ScottG's post. It will give you an idea of caps. Also, if the Mundorfs are a little too expensive, it will give you an idea of what to expect from cheaper caps.
Thats great advice thanks, I think i'll start by upgrading the caps and internal wiring but will look at bulding my own crossover. My existing caps were 100v but it seems on that site they are 630 and 800. Is that ok to change?
Those caps will never see anything like that voltage. The lower value caps will be fine. I'll try to dig some pics out of mine but I used Mundorf supremes and because I tweaked my tweeter freq a little, I added an ampohm in there too. As I said, those ampohms are great vfm while you can still get them. As for cables, I also did mine shortly after the xover upgrade with some odd lengths of kimber 4tc I had. I'd be very surprised if you didn't significantly improve things by changing the caps and cables.
So just to be sure, my caps say 3.3k 100v and 4.7k 100v on them and thats all they have printed onthe side.
From the links above for the Ampohm FP-CA-AU 630vdc they do a 3.3uf 630v and a 4.7uf 630volt. Are these the ones to replace mine with or have i got this all wrong?
Thanks again
From the links above for the Ampohm FP-CA-AU 630vdc they do a 3.3uf 630v and a 4.7uf 630volt. Are these the ones to replace mine with or have i got this all wrong?
Thanks again
Thats right but the 4.7uF are sold out.
Don't just order online, give Lee a call and talk to him. He's a decent bloke!
Voltages are fine tho!
Don't just order online, give Lee a call and talk to him. He's a decent bloke!
Voltages are fine tho!
I upgraded crossover components and went outboard with a pair of Energy 22 Reference Connoisseur speakers. I changed the existing polypropylene caps to Auricaps and there was a definite improvement, more air, detail and smoothness. I preferred the sound of Auricaps vs Solen, Hovland and a couple of others. I didn't try Mundorf. Some people recommend bypass caps. IME, bypassing works only in a shunt position (i.e. to bypass the driver, as in the woofer zobel). If you use parallel caps in series with the driver, you end up with sibilance.
The biggest bang I got was replacing the ferrite-cored woofer inductor with a Solen Hepta-Litz. Bass got much tighter, cleaner and more dynamic, which gave music a bouncier, more involving beat. I tried a ribbon inductor (Alpha-Core) and much preferred the Hepta-Litz. Select the Hepta-Litz gauge based on the DCR of your existing inductor. I didn't bother to replace the smaller air-cored inductors, just the ferrite core on the woofer.
The biggest bang I got was replacing the ferrite-cored woofer inductor with a Solen Hepta-Litz. Bass got much tighter, cleaner and more dynamic, which gave music a bouncier, more involving beat. I tried a ribbon inductor (Alpha-Core) and much preferred the Hepta-Litz. Select the Hepta-Litz gauge based on the DCR of your existing inductor. I didn't bother to replace the smaller air-cored inductors, just the ferrite core on the woofer.
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Moving the crossover out of the cabinet and its vibration may have a bigger effect than changing components. There's nothing really nasty like electrolytics
Cool I can't wait to have a play with this, got to find out what my existing inductors are rated at. Shame a multimeter can't do the job...
Just to note the Silver 9i are a 2.5 way design, not a three way. It makes little difference with regards to your crossover upgrade, but at somepoint in the future should you decide to be more adventurous at least you know.
I had a pair and they were fantastic for a commercial product, they got great reviews from owners, as well as the magazines. The Amish 45/97 that replace them are better, but it showed how good the MAs were when you consider they were £1000 new and there is £500 worth of drivers in the Amish.
Best of luck and I hope you get some good results.
Oh and you can get multimeters that will measure inductance.
I had a pair and they were fantastic for a commercial product, they got great reviews from owners, as well as the magazines. The Amish 45/97 that replace them are better, but it showed how good the MAs were when you consider they were £1000 new and there is £500 worth of drivers in the Amish.
Best of luck and I hope you get some good results.
Oh and you can get multimeters that will measure inductance.
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How do you mean 2.5 way design? I have made an electrical diagram of the cross over. The low range speaker is kept seperate from the mid and tweeter with just a coil allowing the low freq on the lower inputs. The mid and tweeter are driven by the upper inputs and both have their seperate circuits of coils and caps?
I can't wait until I start making the crossover 🙂
I've used Mundorf supremes a few times for upgrading speaker crossovers and every time i've used one in series with a tweeter, I've had to pad the tweeter down because it was too loud. I find an extra 1R (I use Mills resistors) in series, is about right YMMV.
Topology vs. Parts
IMHO if you want to modify the crossovers it should be in design rather than replacement of components. I don't know if there is a possibility of improving the design of the crossover that will actually improve the sound quality of the speakers - all depends on what's there to begin with - but if there's room for improvement that's where it will be.
IMHO if you want to modify the crossovers it should be in design rather than replacement of components. I don't know if there is a possibility of improving the design of the crossover that will actually improve the sound quality of the speakers - all depends on what's there to begin with - but if there's room for improvement that's where it will be.
Cant agree with the above unless you completely understand what you are doing at a theory level then have special measurement and analysing equipment. I'm sure you could improve the std xover design but I'm also sure you'd be in a world of pain too!
The original xovers would have been designed to do a specific job which undoubtedly they do. The compnents would have been chosen based on cost.
imho, just upgrading cheap non audio focussed components for audio grade equiv parts will give large benifits without doing an electronic engineering / sound engineering degree!!!!
The original xovers would have been designed to do a specific job which undoubtedly they do. The compnents would have been chosen based on cost.
imho, just upgrading cheap non audio focussed components for audio grade equiv parts will give large benifits without doing an electronic engineering / sound engineering degree!!!!
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