Hi all,
First time poster here. I'm looking for some advice.
I have a DIY Dynaudio set from Madisound (circa 2000). MDY-4 monitors with D28/2 tweeter and the 17W75EXT woofer. - the same drivers as used in the Contour 1.3. MDY-4 has time-aligned (sloped) front baffle, different cross-over topology (3rd order), and an aperiodic enclosure.
I absolutely love them but after so long I'm wondering if an upgrade to new speakers would realize any benefits.
What I love:
great imaging
neutral sound - frequency response is very flat
quick, punchy, but not booming bass
non-fatiguing highs
great mid-bass to mid-range (human vocals)
easy placement with no rear port
Less good: They are bass-shy and roll off below 50Hz - I use a subwoofer. There is some loss of detail in comparison to my headphones too.
Note, my system is decidedly mid-fi level. I use a Parasound pre-amp with Niles UcD amp with Oppo CD player and digital streaming via Yamaha AVR.
Would there be a big step-up in newer design? I like the monitor/sub layout, but my listening room is larger now and would handle a small floor stander. Any recommendations? TIA.
First time poster here. I'm looking for some advice.
I have a DIY Dynaudio set from Madisound (circa 2000). MDY-4 monitors with D28/2 tweeter and the 17W75EXT woofer. - the same drivers as used in the Contour 1.3. MDY-4 has time-aligned (sloped) front baffle, different cross-over topology (3rd order), and an aperiodic enclosure.
I absolutely love them but after so long I'm wondering if an upgrade to new speakers would realize any benefits.
What I love:
great imaging
neutral sound - frequency response is very flat
quick, punchy, but not booming bass
non-fatiguing highs
great mid-bass to mid-range (human vocals)
easy placement with no rear port
Less good: They are bass-shy and roll off below 50Hz - I use a subwoofer. There is some loss of detail in comparison to my headphones too.
Note, my system is decidedly mid-fi level. I use a Parasound pre-amp with Niles UcD amp with Oppo CD player and digital streaming via Yamaha AVR.
Would there be a big step-up in newer design? I like the monitor/sub layout, but my listening room is larger now and would handle a small floor stander. Any recommendations? TIA.
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This looks like a nice bookshelf, but you certainly have room for generous sized 3-way or 4-way floorstanders that would give you more bass, higher sensitivity, less distortion in mids.
What sub do you have and what's the budget?
What sub do you have and what's the budget?
The sub is nothing special - a Polk Audio geared for HT w/ 12 inch driver. It goes down to 30Hz or so. I've thought to replace with sealed SVS (or a pair of them), but want to know I'm keeping the bookshelfs first.
I've plenty of room for larger speakers. Budget is flexible, but needs to hit a high value to dollar ratio. $500 to $1.5K? I'm intrigued by Troel's designs (ETKA Mkii or Discovery 861 seem like good sizes for my room).
Thanks.
I've plenty of room for larger speakers. Budget is flexible, but needs to hit a high value to dollar ratio. $500 to $1.5K? I'm intrigued by Troel's designs (ETKA Mkii or Discovery 861 seem like good sizes for my room).
Thanks.
I found the schematic for the old kit from an old post MDY-4 kit from Madisound
Another option might be to repurpose your existing drivers into a 3 or 4-way design; or keep the speakers for another room, or sell them and build a different design.
Another option might be to repurpose your existing drivers into a 3 or 4-way design; or keep the speakers for another room, or sell them and build a different design.
I posted a reply, but it never showed up. Trying again.
To the first response, my sub is nothing special. A Polk HT 12-inch with response to about 30Hz. Note, I also have a Contour center channel for HT.
My budget is flexible, but would like to stay with $500 to $1.5K for DIY kit w/o cabinet. I'm intrigued by Troel's designs and the Ekta or Discovery 861 would be good sizes for me.
To your suggestion about repurposing the existing drivers - I really like that. I'd love to build a three-way if I could find a woofer in the 7 or 8 inch size that would integrate well with existing drivers. One issue is that the mid-woofer has a high Qts (.7?) - hence the aperiodic design. It might be tough to integrate. I'd hate to abandon them though.
Is your comment about the reduced distortion a function of not having mid and woofer frequencies from one driver? E.g. going to a three-way? I'm still learning. I thought that using the sub would might mitigate that issue?
To the first response, my sub is nothing special. A Polk HT 12-inch with response to about 30Hz. Note, I also have a Contour center channel for HT.
My budget is flexible, but would like to stay with $500 to $1.5K for DIY kit w/o cabinet. I'm intrigued by Troel's designs and the Ekta or Discovery 861 would be good sizes for me.
To your suggestion about repurposing the existing drivers - I really like that. I'd love to build a three-way if I could find a woofer in the 7 or 8 inch size that would integrate well with existing drivers. One issue is that the mid-woofer has a high Qts (.7?) - hence the aperiodic design. It might be tough to integrate. I'd hate to abandon them though.
Is your comment about the reduced distortion a function of not having mid and woofer frequencies from one driver? E.g. going to a three-way? I'm still learning. I thought that using the sub would might mitigate that issue?
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Your replies don't show immediately because as a new/infrequent poster your posts first need to be verified and passed by a moderator 🙂
+1, to my not so old ears at the time for comparison, those are some pretty fine drivers even by today's standards. 😉
Kinda sounds like you need better bass support than just a single sub. How about matching bass modules that take the place of your existing speaker stands. A couple of 8" woofers per side aught to do it.
jeff
Getting subs to blend with the topis often hard, and you really need at least 2. (SUB)woofers, are usually the easiest to design and build.
The other thing i would suggest is that the tweeter could be a whole lot closer to the midBass. You will not get to the “magic” quarter-wavelnght spacing, but purposely placing a tweeter so far from the midBass i consider a shortcoming. I’d go as far as notching out the tweeter bezel to push it closer. XO might beed to be tweaked.
dave
The other thing i would suggest is that the tweeter could be a whole lot closer to the midBass. You will not get to the “magic” quarter-wavelnght spacing, but purposely placing a tweeter so far from the midBass i consider a shortcoming. I’d go as far as notching out the tweeter bezel to push it closer. XO might beed to be tweaked.
dave
Yes, you said you really like the basic sound and these drivers seem very good and worth keeping to me. Reduced distortion would follow from relieving the midwoofer of low frequency excursion; allowing it to focus only on the midrange. A sub only helps grant this if the midwoofer is being high-passed (full signal run through the sub's crossover), rather than still running full range (full signal from your amp) with the sub filling on below 100hz.
Finding suitable bass drivers is definitely possible; the mid would be given a sealed housing in a new cabinet, so its QTS doesn't matter. Only thing is it seems there was both an 8ohm and 4ohm version of this driver. You'd ideally need measuring equipment to design a new speaker, and would want to know which driver version you have there. I'd be thinking a 10" or 12" woofer per side; it looks like you have more than enough room.
Now, I don't think these look very good myself but the basic idea of one cabinet module for the tweeter + mid + another discrete cabinet for the bass driver would be the general concept here. e.g. Carmody's Tarkus and Jeff Bagby's Kairos 3 way outline. Troels does something similar with the SBA 741, which I think looks ghastly but....
At the end of the latter document, Jeff says building a single new cab would make sense and can be made to look nicer.
Building your own nice big subs would definitely solve the bass and be simple and no risk, really. Repurposing the drivers into a true 3-way would be more complex, costly and need measuring equipment, but has higher performance potential.
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Dave's advice is spot on.
Better build two subs and use them under the speakers you have instead of the stands. Integration will be easier too.
For looks google tarkus speakers.
Well, when it comes tweeter to mid distance, too late now, unless you are willing to rebuild the speakers.
Better build two subs and use them under the speakers you have instead of the stands. Integration will be easier too.
For looks google tarkus speakers.
Well, when it comes tweeter to mid distance, too late now, unless you are willing to rebuild the speakers.
Thanks all for your comments. I am going to focus improving the bass via new subwoofers (x2).
To Motokok - thanks for reference to Tarkus and Kairos. Not the look I want, but good information. The L/R signal is being high-passed. The Parasound pre-amp has both high-pass and full-range outs (plus sub). It's a neat feature. Roll-off is 80Hz (fixed) and is first-order (6db/octave) so is gradual. I hope it reduces distortion somewhat. That Parasound also has HT bypass so it gets out of the way when using AVR, but is pure two-channel when using other sources.
I do like the sound, so I'll keep the boxes as is for now. Maybe I'll do a full redesign at some point (3-way with closer spacing on T/M) - that'd keep me busy for a while.
To Motokok - thanks for reference to Tarkus and Kairos. Not the look I want, but good information. The L/R signal is being high-passed. The Parasound pre-amp has both high-pass and full-range outs (plus sub). It's a neat feature. Roll-off is 80Hz (fixed) and is first-order (6db/octave) so is gradual. I hope it reduces distortion somewhat. That Parasound also has HT bypass so it gets out of the way when using AVR, but is pure two-channel when using other sources.
I do like the sound, so I'll keep the boxes as is for now. Maybe I'll do a full redesign at some point (3-way with closer spacing on T/M) - that'd keep me busy for a while.
Sounds fun. Subs has its own forum; another whole kettle of fish. I think this is quite a nice thread Trying to design the world's simplest sub