What's instead happening is that you're increasing the Q of the system every time you decrease the enclosure size. That causes a large overshoot in the response which in this case is around where you are aiming frequency wise. This is not increased efficiency; you're just exploiting a high Q ported box. You'll likely notice you have zero low end output.
In Post # 6 you say you're using (3) 10" Kicker L7's but in Post # 41 you say solo X10. Which are they ? Plus on Kickers www there are Numerous models with the same name, but from different years. So i expect that the specs will be different !
Also, i downloaded PDF's for SoloX 10 & SoloBaricL7. Neither had these specs ?
Also, i downloaded PDF's for SoloX 10 & SoloBaricL7. Neither had these specs ?
Surely if you tune both sides to 58Hz, you'll get nothing at all.
The ports would end out out of phase, since they're being driven by opposite sides of the cone.
I have a setup using 3 L710's and a setup for 2soloX10's doing the same score at the moment - so I have been testing with both - trying to figure out which I can get louder.
At the moment, the soloX's are in my car... 2007 model d2's (which was the specs I posted).
At the moment, the soloX's are in my car... 2007 model d2's (which was the specs I posted).
Could you elaborate on why this is a 'bad' thing?
How would you increase efficiency for a 60hz one-note-wonder?
How would you increase efficiency for a 60hz one-note-wonder?
Can you explain more how the "500VA" is measured? Is there a voltmeter across the amp terminals, and some kind of a tiny resistor (like 0.1 ohm) in series? OR a clamp-on ammeter? OR ????
I'm not feeling the 6th order bandpass thing-yeah, if you tuned both sides to 60 Hz, it would all just cancel. BASS-ically (ha ha) you want to have a port flow as much air as possible. Air flow = SPL after all. My gut feeling is to stick with the ported box and keep working with that. On the other hand, have you ever considered a tapped horn? Maybe you could make some kind of a horn that would actually use the interior shape of your vehicle as the final horn wall, kinda like a Klipschorn. A coworker did something like that for MINI, 5" driving a horn along the floor and opening to the firewall, bloody amazing output for the size and power. Probably won't help you this weekend though ;-)
NOW on the other hand, a better flowing port *may* give a lower impedance…sorry, I can't say for sure, I haven't messed with that in a long time and don't have easy access to a simulator. Speaking of which, last I checked the only packages that can really truly make accurate simulations are LEAP and I think Akabak. Others basically use electrical filter simulations, which are too crude for the fine detail needed at the level you want to be tweaking. It seems like you need very accurate impedance simulation, taking into account the actual high frequency rolloff from moving mass + voice coil semi-impedance.
I'm not feeling the 6th order bandpass thing-yeah, if you tuned both sides to 60 Hz, it would all just cancel. BASS-ically (ha ha) you want to have a port flow as much air as possible. Air flow = SPL after all. My gut feeling is to stick with the ported box and keep working with that. On the other hand, have you ever considered a tapped horn? Maybe you could make some kind of a horn that would actually use the interior shape of your vehicle as the final horn wall, kinda like a Klipschorn. A coworker did something like that for MINI, 5" driving a horn along the floor and opening to the firewall, bloody amazing output for the size and power. Probably won't help you this weekend though ;-)
NOW on the other hand, a better flowing port *may* give a lower impedance…sorry, I can't say for sure, I haven't messed with that in a long time and don't have easy access to a simulator. Speaking of which, last I checked the only packages that can really truly make accurate simulations are LEAP and I think Akabak. Others basically use electrical filter simulations, which are too crude for the fine detail needed at the level you want to be tweaking. It seems like you need very accurate impedance simulation, taking into account the actual high frequency rolloff from moving mass + voice coil semi-impedance.
Multimeter on the output terminals reading AC voltage and ammeter reading AC amperage, multiply the results for VA.
6th order I think does have some potential within the power/cone area limits of what I'm trying to do - but the space is an issue (hatch of a 2003 Celica). Won't be able to do a very large ratio... (around 5-6 cubes to work with).
Horn's do have awesome efficiency as well - but I've not seen one do well in a car environment in an spl application...
6th order I think does have some potential within the power/cone area limits of what I'm trying to do - but the space is an issue (hatch of a 2003 Celica). Won't be able to do a very large ratio... (around 5-6 cubes to work with).
Horn's do have awesome efficiency as well - but I've not seen one do well in a car environment in an spl application...
6th order is kinda sorta kinda like a ported box, but instead of the cone directly moving air for the upper bass frequencies, you are exciting a resonator. So the two ports should be producing different frequencies. If they are tuned to the same frequency, then you'd have cancellation as the other fellow noted. Plus yes, more space taken up.
--> You should concentrate on ported boxes, or 4th order bandpass.
Interesting to think about comparing the two. The bandpass has the possible disadvantage of needing more space??? I couldn't comment more without getting LEAP up and running but I'd have to resurrect a PC to do that. And not to denigrate other programs which are fine for what they do, but in your very specific application I would not trust simulations out of any program which uses electrical filter simulation. Anything which shows the upper frequency response as flat is only grossly accurate, real speakers are not like that, and the simulations won't be accurate enough for what you are trying to do. Even with LEAP or Akabak or ???, results will be modified when you stuff them in a car, although LEAP had some order of simulation for that as well. In Akabak maybe you could model the inside of the car but I'm not sure.
Well, you have to use the whole inside of the car as a horn. Rather like driving inside a Klipschorn or something! Actually for your purpose, the vented box might have a pretty good efficiency since the high SPL is generated with a high impedance.
I'm pretty familiar with bandpass alignments - but again, comes down to an issue of space.
Unfortunately, the soloX's and L7's are not very suitable for a 4th (really high VAS), so I'd have to do 6th order if I wanted to play with a (loud) bandpass - and I'd need somewhere around 9 to 12 cubes of space for 3 10" woofers (I've only got around 5-6 available in my hatch).
As far as the horn - construction is not terrible difficult - I believe it's more of an issue with how the woofer loads with high air pressure on both sides of the cone (rather than firing into a large room as they are commonly used), though that is just speculation on my part... I've never seen one do 'good' numbers in a car environment - but boy do they sound great...
Unfortunately, the soloX's and L7's are not very suitable for a 4th (really high VAS), so I'd have to do 6th order if I wanted to play with a (loud) bandpass - and I'd need somewhere around 9 to 12 cubes of space for 3 10" woofers (I've only got around 5-6 available in my hatch).
As far as the horn - construction is not terrible difficult - I believe it's more of an issue with how the woofer loads with high air pressure on both sides of the cone (rather than firing into a large room as they are commonly used), though that is just speculation on my part... I've never seen one do 'good' numbers in a car environment - but boy do they sound great...
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