What's the difference between the board that they sell in Digikey and the one the was offered to Andrea? Is it just a 24 $ discount ?
D.
D.
Xmos is chip company. Then they realise that they have a application design which can make money, so .....
Board is the same as Digikey. Just discount.
As already discussed, the board has features we do not need (e.g. SPDIF, Toslink,...), and does not have things that we want (remote clock, separate PSUs, ....). So no pint in paying 150 USD for that other than convenience. IMHO better to buy chip & software and DIY the rest.
Patrick
Board is the same as Digikey. Just discount.
As already discussed, the board has features we do not need (e.g. SPDIF, Toslink,...), and does not have things that we want (remote clock, separate PSUs, ....). So no pint in paying 150 USD for that other than convenience. IMHO better to buy chip & software and DIY the rest.
Patrick
My "price point" for this project as a diy module is less than $40. Any price above that would have me looking at Twisted Pear Audio and some of the other sources of diy pcb's and/or diy kits and/or fully commercial products for a solution.
I would like to propose to Eric Juaneda, this:
We can send 5$ each to Eric Juaneda to buy these 4 boards/module:
1) Musiland 01 usb
2) Xtremeusb XD1014EVB
3) Xmod Audio evaluation board
4) HiFace USB ->Spdif
after he will make a comparasion test and he could publish the results.
If the Xmod or the Xtremeusb are good like the other commercial products he can develop a custom module with these chips.
In this case the cost should be very low and we are sure of the result.
OK ?
We can send 5$ each to Eric Juaneda to buy these 4 boards/module:
1) Musiland 01 usb
2) Xtremeusb XD1014EVB
3) Xmod Audio evaluation board
4) HiFace USB ->Spdif
after he will make a comparasion test and he could publish the results.
If the Xmod or the Xtremeusb are good like the other commercial products he can develop a custom module with these chips.
In this case the cost should be very low and we are sure of the result.
OK ?
Hello audiodesign,
Before buying any IC, you must be able to solve all technical and commercial problems.
1) Musiland 01 usb
Chinese manufacturer, it seems they are not interested by 150 pieces. Working with Chinese company is not the same as working with European or US Company.
2) Xtremeusb XD1014EVB
The evaluation board is not ready. Wait and see...
3) Xmod Audio evaluation board
It steels some interrogations about drivers.
4) HiFace USB ->Spdif
Why not.
There are many pro Diyaudio members who are following this thread with interest and having same interrogations. There was a lot of work already done by Diyaudio community; there is a lot of work to do again before ending project. Each of one can add its own contribution.
This project is probably not so simple! To integrate an OEM chip, you must accept manufacturer's term and conditions. You can't buy only few ICs from manufacturer. Integrating an OEM chip is a real commercial project needing time and money. Choosing chip is not only a technical choice. It is not necessary to perform test with IC that you can't buy.
Before buying any IC, you must be able to solve all technical and commercial problems.
1) Musiland 01 usb
Chinese manufacturer, it seems they are not interested by 150 pieces. Working with Chinese company is not the same as working with European or US Company.
2) Xtremeusb XD1014EVB
The evaluation board is not ready. Wait and see...
3) Xmod Audio evaluation board
It steels some interrogations about drivers.
4) HiFace USB ->Spdif
Why not.
There are many pro Diyaudio members who are following this thread with interest and having same interrogations. There was a lot of work already done by Diyaudio community; there is a lot of work to do again before ending project. Each of one can add its own contribution.
The global results depends of the global environment: good environment -> good result; poor environment -> poor result.
All these chips can be equivalent since they work in asynchronous mode and are bit fluency.
I join bloc diagram of an USB DAC (NOS or OS) whatever the OEM chip used.
Attachments
Eric,
it mean that you accept but with reserve ?
I hope to have all the answer about the Xmos and XtreemUSB in this week.
it mean that you accept but with reserve ?
I hope to have all the answer about the Xmos and XtreemUSB in this week.
Hi, Eric!
I think you forgot include control signal for clean clock switch originating from OEM chip.
I think you forgot include control signal for clean clock switch originating from OEM chip.
Oh! shame on me, I had seen the other thread some time ago but forgot about it!
I guess we should join the efforts...
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received now:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sales - XMOS" <sales@xmos.com>
To: "Andrea Ciuffoli" <webmaster@audiodesignguide.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: XMOS Contact
Hi Andrea,
The kits will come with native driver support for Mac OSX (10.6.4 and later) and a demo version of the Thesycon windows driver.
For a full Windows driver development kit users need to contact Thesycon directly. Centrance are also offering a Windows driver, for details they should be contacted directly.
We do not have "official" linux support but an early version of a linux USB audio2 driver which works with the L1 audio board is available within the linux community: see git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tiwai/sound-2.6.git This is actively in development.
If users want source code then they will have to sign the XMOS source license on an individual basis.
I hope this helps.
Regards
Becky
-----------
Sent now email to Thesycon for the price.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sales - XMOS" <sales@xmos.com>
To: "Andrea Ciuffoli" <webmaster@audiodesignguide.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: XMOS Contact
Hi Andrea,
The kits will come with native driver support for Mac OSX (10.6.4 and later) and a demo version of the Thesycon windows driver.
For a full Windows driver development kit users need to contact Thesycon directly. Centrance are also offering a Windows driver, for details they should be contacted directly.
We do not have "official" linux support but an early version of a linux USB audio2 driver which works with the L1 audio board is available within the linux community: see git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tiwai/sound-2.6.git This is actively in development.
If users want source code then they will have to sign the XMOS source license on an individual basis.
I hope this helps.
Regards
Becky
-----------
Sent now email to Thesycon for the price.
The Thesycon free demo version for Xmos module cannot be used:
Universal USB Device Drivers for Windows - USB Development Kit - Tool-Kit USB
Free DemoUSBIO Demo is time-limited but has full functionality. The device driver can be used for 4 hours. Then all function calls will be rejected and the computer must be rebooted in order to use the demo again. The demo package includes the USBIO device driver, the complete documentation and the source code of all programming examples.
--------
if we buy a licence at 2500 euro, these are about 20$ for each
Universal USB Device Drivers for Windows - USB Development Kit - Tool-Kit USB
Free DemoUSBIO Demo is time-limited but has full functionality. The device driver can be used for 4 hours. Then all function calls will be rejected and the computer must be rebooted in order to use the demo again. The demo package includes the USBIO device driver, the complete documentation and the source code of all programming examples.
--------
if we buy a licence at 2500 euro, these are about 20$ for each
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Perhaps we should first come to some form of consensus before we proceed further to discuss implementation details.
My first point would be, what should be in the "module" and what not.
In the original GB, the module for 50 Euros is basically a single PCB with a USB in and a I2S out, with a uP doing the conversion and a clock switching command line between 2 clocks. I think we already said the clock should be close to the DACs and hence not next to the uP. We also said we want external power supplies for uP, DAC, clock, ..., meaning they are also not on board. Also no SPDIF, otherwise just easier to buy Hiface or whatever....
On the software side, Windows (& Mac, Linux...?) driver(s), I2S out, optionally other formats like left justified, etc.
To give full flexibility for choice of DAC, I would also NOT include shift register, digital isolators and reclockers in the module. They add costs substantially and are not tailored to everyone's needs.
If what I described is what we are looking at, then it is simply a few connectors, one uP chip and a few local decoupling caps. And we should be under 50 Euros if we can get a minimum of 100 units signed up. Otherwise it's no go.
For all the other functional blocks as suggested by Eric (thanks for the excellent block diagram), I think they should be implemented as individual modules so that everyone can decide what he might or might not need.
For me personally, I would only need the USB to I2S converter, since I am already designing my own for the rest. But that's just selfish me ....
Just my personal view.
Patrick
My first point would be, what should be in the "module" and what not.
In the original GB, the module for 50 Euros is basically a single PCB with a USB in and a I2S out, with a uP doing the conversion and a clock switching command line between 2 clocks. I think we already said the clock should be close to the DACs and hence not next to the uP. We also said we want external power supplies for uP, DAC, clock, ..., meaning they are also not on board. Also no SPDIF, otherwise just easier to buy Hiface or whatever....
On the software side, Windows (& Mac, Linux...?) driver(s), I2S out, optionally other formats like left justified, etc.
To give full flexibility for choice of DAC, I would also NOT include shift register, digital isolators and reclockers in the module. They add costs substantially and are not tailored to everyone's needs.
If what I described is what we are looking at, then it is simply a few connectors, one uP chip and a few local decoupling caps. And we should be under 50 Euros if we can get a minimum of 100 units signed up. Otherwise it's no go.
For all the other functional blocks as suggested by Eric (thanks for the excellent block diagram), I think they should be implemented as individual modules so that everyone can decide what he might or might not need.
For me personally, I would only need the USB to I2S converter, since I am already designing my own for the rest. But that's just selfish me ....
Just my personal view.
Patrick
Hi EUVL,
- This reduces individual acquisition price of each module (but increase global price),
- This reduce design time,
- Each of them can choose necessary modules,
- We can design various modules for same function (example: power supply),
- It offers very wide flexibility and easy evolutions.
It seems to be a very interesting idea
It is a very interesting point of view, I see many advantages:
- This reduces individual acquisition price of each module (but increase global price),
- This reduce design time,
- Each of them can choose necessary modules,
- We can design various modules for same function (example: power supply),
- It offers very wide flexibility and easy evolutions.
It seems to be a very interesting idea
So USB 125$00 + 20$00 = total 145$00 price to much expensive if I remember well the GB for hiFace 50€00....
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The Xmos USB Audio Reference Design is: "everything to all people - let's show off all that can be done with the Xmos design". It is also fully documented and all that, i.e. a manufacturer reference design.
I was never under the impression that the majority of the people showing interest in the first thread want all that: 192/24 USB in -> I2S out async [with good quality and driver support] appeared to be the functionality that was driving the interest. I could be wrong of course.
I was never under the impression that the majority of the people showing interest in the first thread want all that: 192/24 USB in -> I2S out async [with good quality and driver support] appeared to be the functionality that was driving the interest. I could be wrong of course.
Sorry, I disagree. That way everyone would have to reinvent the wheel - that is basically (re)design their own interfaces. I think that most people would rather like to have something much more "plug & play". That is something like what depicted by Eric Juaneda on post #26 (plus missing link), which is exactly what I had in mind.
I'd rather put everything but the DAC & power supplies on the board, leaving the option of omitting some parts (such as the clocks) and adding all the required jumpers, connectors, etc. to make it as "flexible" and versatile as it can be.
This way, less experienced and/or lazier people - just like me 🙄 😀 - together with those satisfied with the default design can simply build it and use it as it is (it's easy: just add the required PSUs and a DAC of your choice and you're done!).
On the other end, the more "adventurous" can "tailor" the board to make it fit their own needs and ideas.
Oh! I see. Well, yes, this may be another good option. But am afraid in the end would cost much more (for the complete system), and may have problems with all those connections from one board to the other.
I'd still prefer to have all but the PSUs (and perhaps clocks?) on a single, well designed PCB.
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