Excellent.....
I love it when the debate gets going!! 🙂
For my part, I know nothing about the technical side of the AX, so I was intended to go with the flow and clone my AX. If the AvMag transformers make a significant and proven sonic improvement, then I may revise my order to 2 no trannies (vice 3) and put my 4-channel GC project on the back burner. Good to see that the AX is a potential Krell-beater!!! 😀
I rang some if the companies PinkMouse linked yesterday and got some interesting quotations. All the companies were *very* helpful and happy to supply me (I was using my Artisan Audio moniker). Some items were ex-stock, some on lead times (up to 16 weeks) and some unavailable. MOQs ranged from 10, though generally 25, up to 1350! I won't attribute prices to companies here. The Reichelt price is in brackets - converted from Euros to GBP using xe.com (currently 1.5 Euros to a GBP or 1 Euro is 66 pence. All prices exclude VAT (although the Reichelt price is straight off the web, I don't know if that is VAT inclusive or not - Patrick??)
IRPF240 (0.90) 97p - 1.18 - 3.31
IRPF9240 (1.07) 59p - 1.00 - 4.03
IRFP044N (0.80) 64p - 67p - 1.80
IRF9610 (0.34) Nil stock
Also BYW99W-200 spec order, lead 15 weeks, 600 MOQ, 91p each.
If you add VAT to the 044Ns, you get 75p - need to order in multiples of 25 which would work...........
I'll have to see what appears on the WIKI - if it's just 044Ns, then I am tempted to go the UK route. If there are other parts, then I'll run the UK part of the Reichelt order.
Any thoughts??????
Jon
I love it when the debate gets going!! 🙂
For my part, I know nothing about the technical side of the AX, so I was intended to go with the flow and clone my AX. If the AvMag transformers make a significant and proven sonic improvement, then I may revise my order to 2 no trannies (vice 3) and put my 4-channel GC project on the back burner. Good to see that the AX is a potential Krell-beater!!! 😀
I rang some if the companies PinkMouse linked yesterday and got some interesting quotations. All the companies were *very* helpful and happy to supply me (I was using my Artisan Audio moniker). Some items were ex-stock, some on lead times (up to 16 weeks) and some unavailable. MOQs ranged from 10, though generally 25, up to 1350! I won't attribute prices to companies here. The Reichelt price is in brackets - converted from Euros to GBP using xe.com (currently 1.5 Euros to a GBP or 1 Euro is 66 pence. All prices exclude VAT (although the Reichelt price is straight off the web, I don't know if that is VAT inclusive or not - Patrick??)
IRPF240 (0.90) 97p - 1.18 - 3.31
IRPF9240 (1.07) 59p - 1.00 - 4.03
IRFP044N (0.80) 64p - 67p - 1.80
IRF9610 (0.34) Nil stock
Also BYW99W-200 spec order, lead 15 weeks, 600 MOQ, 91p each.
If you add VAT to the 044Ns, you get 75p - need to order in multiples of 25 which would work...........
I'll have to see what appears on the WIKI - if it's just 044Ns, then I am tempted to go the UK route. If there are other parts, then I'll run the UK part of the Reichelt order.
Any thoughts??????
Jon
Reichelt
Jon,
Reichelt price includes VAT.
And since we are in the EU (one big argument for not leaving the EU, guys), you pay VAT in Germany and no customs in the UK. Simple as that. Reichelt is good, but sometimes you don't know what you get, especially with capacitors and things. But I buy from them regularly.
If you can really get the rectifier diodes under one pound, count me in for 12 at least. There are 4 guys here building 20 Aleph-X's in total, many of them with active crossovers. I am sure they migh also want some.
Patrick
Jon,
Reichelt price includes VAT.
And since we are in the EU (one big argument for not leaving the EU, guys), you pay VAT in Germany and no customs in the UK. Simple as that. Reichelt is good, but sometimes you don't know what you get, especially with capacitors and things. But I buy from them regularly.
If you can really get the rectifier diodes under one pound, count me in for 12 at least. There are 4 guys here building 20 Aleph-X's in total, many of them with active crossovers. I am sure they migh also want some.
Patrick
Tranny
Thanks Patrick for your thoughts................I do applogise for not using my real name..................and will use in future...............
Yes you have got me thinking.............
However, I am considering using a pretty stiff ps......1000va transformer, high speed rectifier (courtosey of Bigparsnip) &
136,000uf on + & - rails ......totalling 272,000uf!!! So even if final wattage is a touch down say 70-80w there is plenty of guts backing it up.................
Your 15v version ......... was the low end not effected by the stiffness of ps and the current capability ....... of the number of fets you used.....just a thought.......what spec was the ps????
Regards
Richard😕 😕
Thanks Patrick for your thoughts................I do applogise for not using my real name..................and will use in future...............
Yes you have got me thinking.............
However, I am considering using a pretty stiff ps......1000va transformer, high speed rectifier (courtosey of Bigparsnip) &
136,000uf on + & - rails ......totalling 272,000uf!!! So even if final wattage is a touch down say 70-80w there is plenty of guts backing it up.................
Your 15v version ......... was the low end not effected by the stiffness of ps and the current capability ....... of the number of fets you used.....just a thought.......what spec was the ps????
Regards
Richard😕 😕
15W Version, Rectifier Diodes
Richard,
15W PSU was 300VA Capacitor Multiplier. Less than 20mV ripple, enough current. Rest exactly like Grey's schematics. i.e. 4 Fet's, 0.22 ohm source resistors.
And Jon, watch out for the diodes, you can get them with the same number from a number of manufacturers. I only want them from ST Micorelectronics (like you get them from Farnell, but too expensive).
Patrick
Richard,
15W PSU was 300VA Capacitor Multiplier. Less than 20mV ripple, enough current. Rest exactly like Grey's schematics. i.e. 4 Fet's, 0.22 ohm source resistors.
And Jon, watch out for the diodes, you can get them with the same number from a number of manufacturers. I only want them from ST Micorelectronics (like you get them from Farnell, but too expensive).
Patrick
Manufacturers and Output boards??
Hi Patrick,
I was asked by richie00boy to ask for IRF. Are the ST parts superior?? (Actually, that's why I asked for OnSemi MUR860s etc etc).
Reichelt will supply me with IRF if I ask.
Cheers
Jon
Also, for D3 - If we are going to use 16 FETs a side, will we need a FET pcb (output board?) as well?????
Hi Patrick,
I was asked by richie00boy to ask for IRF. Are the ST parts superior?? (Actually, that's why I asked for OnSemi MUR860s etc etc).
Reichelt will supply me with IRF if I ask.
Cheers
Jon
Also, for D3 - If we are going to use 16 FETs a side, will we need a FET pcb (output board?) as well?????
BYW99P-200
Jon,
I am not aware that you can get BYW99W-200 from IRF. The power mosfet's like IRF044 you can get from IRF, Harris, or even Samsung. But maybe I am not up to date on this.
The Pass Lab commercial amps use BYW99W-200 from STM. But if you look around, the BYW99P-200 (not TO247, but the more common TO93 - I think, doth know by heart - is much more commonly available and therefore slightly cheaper, with exactly the same thermal performance. So I would also try to as for the 99P just to compare.
I did a search yesterday on internet but only get BYW99 from STM. Maybe I have mixed it up with the BYV52 as well, which you can get from various manufacturers like Philips, etc.
But for the time being, I am intending to stick to BYW99P(W)-200 from STM. Again, this is my personal biased choice. Do some more searching for yourself.
Patrick
Jon,
I am not aware that you can get BYW99W-200 from IRF. The power mosfet's like IRF044 you can get from IRF, Harris, or even Samsung. But maybe I am not up to date on this.
The Pass Lab commercial amps use BYW99W-200 from STM. But if you look around, the BYW99P-200 (not TO247, but the more common TO93 - I think, doth know by heart - is much more commonly available and therefore slightly cheaper, with exactly the same thermal performance. So I would also try to as for the 99P just to compare.
I did a search yesterday on internet but only get BYW99 from STM. Maybe I have mixed it up with the BYV52 as well, which you can get from various manufacturers like Philips, etc.
But for the time being, I am intending to stick to BYW99P(W)-200 from STM. Again, this is my personal biased choice. Do some more searching for yourself.
Patrick
Transformer specs
Richard (D3),
A side note if I may.
If you are going to talk to Mike Novak, ask for his opinion on the following :
1) an earthable copper electrostatic shield between primary and secondary to reduce interwinding capacitance;
2) belly belt outside the (separate) secondaries as a magnetic shield;
3) bifilar windings for the secondaries
4) his opinion about the oval cores from :
http://www.nipponcore.com/pr-o.htm
e.g. the OB1000
I have not talked to him for about 3 months now, and that was before I found this oval cores, which seem to be getting very popular with some American toroidal manufacturers. And they are also available in MOH equivalent materials.
Patrick
Richard (D3),
A side note if I may.
If you are going to talk to Mike Novak, ask for his opinion on the following :
1) an earthable copper electrostatic shield between primary and secondary to reduce interwinding capacitance;
2) belly belt outside the (separate) secondaries as a magnetic shield;
3) bifilar windings for the secondaries
4) his opinion about the oval cores from :
http://www.nipponcore.com/pr-o.htm
e.g. the OB1000
I have not talked to him for about 3 months now, and that was before I found this oval cores, which seem to be getting very popular with some American toroidal manufacturers. And they are also available in MOH equivalent materials.
Patrick
Tranny uk order
This is the proposed Tranny order so far......
Jason Hubbard 10x1000va
D3 3x1000va
Mark (Kram) 2x1000va
jonclancy 3x1000va
2X15-0-15v 15va
Simon Bird 2x1000va
EUVL would like 3x1000va 23-0-23 230v...........I am happy with 18-0-18 ....... however EUVL puts some good points together....
so we could change to 23-0-23 ..............what do you guys think?
Richard
This is the proposed Tranny order so far......
Jason Hubbard 10x1000va
D3 3x1000va
Mark (Kram) 2x1000va
jonclancy 3x1000va
2X15-0-15v 15va
Simon Bird 2x1000va
EUVL would like 3x1000va 23-0-23 230v...........I am happy with 18-0-18 ....... however EUVL puts some good points together....
so we could change to 23-0-23 ..............what do you guys think?
Richard
My preference is for the +/- 23V as per EUVL and would be prepared to pay for the Avery's.
I have order 4 of BP's boards from the Wiki for the rectification, though there has been no mention of the possible component kits mention there. Again I would only go with the STM as per EUVL.
On the Fets and matching what is the expected loss?
ie how many of each type should I order? (100W 32 044's)
It would be better to have them on a PCB as per Pass Labs, sounds like another one for BP though not to be considered until after his finals !
TIA😕
I have order 4 of BP's boards from the Wiki for the rectification, though there has been no mention of the possible component kits mention there. Again I would only go with the STM as per EUVL.
On the Fets and matching what is the expected loss?
ie how many of each type should I order? (100W 32 044's)
It would be better to have them on a PCB as per Pass Labs, sounds like another one for BP though not to be considered until after his finals !
TIA😕
Possible Avery Tranny Order
Mike from Avery....emailed me as follows.........
If you had 17 off 18 – 0 – 18v @ 30A/leg using our audio grade cores the trannies would be about £115.00 each.
This is too pricey for me........................what does everybody else think???
Richard
Mike from Avery....emailed me as follows.........
If you had 17 off 18 – 0 – 18v @ 30A/leg using our audio grade cores the trannies would be about £115.00 each.
This is too pricey for me........................what does everybody else think???
Richard
Way way to pricey.
Didnt airlink quote us something like £30 each.
That is a bit of a jump to £115.00, too much for my wallet to take.
Mark.
Didnt airlink quote us something like £30 each.
That is a bit of a jump to £115.00, too much for my wallet to take.
Mark.
Avery Quote / Diode Supplier Correction
Dear all, Richard,
I also agree that this is way too expensive. (But that was not what I was quoted 3 months ago.)
So my most sincere apologies for all the fuss I created, and please stick to Airlink.
And a correction for a previous statement about BYW99. The BYV series rectifiers are available from different suppliers, including STM, Philips and Vishay. The BYW series seems to be STM only. So your quotes of under one pound are very good indeed. Count me in for 16.
Sorry Jon for the confusion. I was looking into too many diodes at the same time.
My statement about availability and price difference between the W (TO247) and the P (SOT93) package, however, is valid as far as known suppliers in Germany and some in America are concerned. But I am happy to take either, which ever is available. They are dimension wise 90% compatible.
Patrick
Dear all, Richard,
I also agree that this is way too expensive. (But that was not what I was quoted 3 months ago.)
So my most sincere apologies for all the fuss I created, and please stick to Airlink.
And a correction for a previous statement about BYW99. The BYV series rectifiers are available from different suppliers, including STM, Philips and Vishay. The BYW series seems to be STM only. So your quotes of under one pound are very good indeed. Count me in for 16.
Sorry Jon for the confusion. I was looking into too many diodes at the same time.
My statement about availability and price difference between the W (TO247) and the P (SOT93) package, however, is valid as far as known suppliers in Germany and some in America are concerned. But I am happy to take either, which ever is available. They are dimension wise 90% compatible.
Patrick
Yes they are expensive........but I don't think we need ultra low capacitance...........AB tend to be far more sensative to this....(so I am informed)
Class 'a' is not so sensative.............
so Airlink .....I think will be fine...................
Class 'a' is not so sensative.............
so Airlink .....I think will be fine...................
Re: BYW99P-200
Hi All,
Patrick, sorry but my post was not clear.
Absolutely right. The FETs have been requested as IRF originals, and we're looking for a value source for the BYW99W-200 - as Nelson specifies. The point I was making was that some manfaucturers make better thought of versions of a generic part.
Anyway, we both have the same POV. 😉
Regarding the trannies, I couldn't stretch to 115 a pop, although the spec sounds very nice.
Shame he's not cheaper!!
Cheers
Jon 🙂
Hi All,
Patrick, sorry but my post was not clear.
EUVL said:
Absolutely right. The FETs have been requested as IRF originals, and we're looking for a value source for the BYW99W-200 - as Nelson specifies. The point I was making was that some manfaucturers make better thought of versions of a generic part.
Anyway, we both have the same POV. 😉
Regarding the trannies, I couldn't stretch to 115 a pop, although the spec sounds very nice.
Shame he's not cheaper!!
Cheers
Jon 🙂
Hi jon,
Glad you managed to chase down those prices for us, it's just in my miserly Yorkshire nature to be wary of first quotes! /white-rose-smilie/
However, at the moment I'm not sure if, (much as I want to), I can partake in any group buys in the near future. Finances have gone from bad to worse over the past few weeks so I expect to be totally broke for a month or so...
However, I will still be hanging around, waiting for all the pics of your finished projects! 😉
Glad you managed to chase down those prices for us, it's just in my miserly Yorkshire nature to be wary of first quotes! /white-rose-smilie/
However, at the moment I'm not sure if, (much as I want to), I can partake in any group buys in the near future. Finances have gone from bad to worse over the past few weeks so I expect to be totally broke for a month or so...
However, I will still be hanging around, waiting for all the pics of your finished projects! 😉
I wouldn't hold your breath....
I don't know about others here, but I must be the slowest DIYer on the planet. I've been into this for 18 months or so, and have 1 Nixon Dackit built - that's it!! 😀
I've got loads in the pipeline, though, including Rod Elliot's P88 pre, 4 x Nixon Ampkits, one Elliot P?? Active X-over, one DDDac, 4 AXs, etc etc. "Nice collection of PCBs you have there..." 🙄
Eventually, though, eventually......... 😉
But I hope you become dosh-laden in the near future. 🙂
Cheers
Jon
I don't know about others here, but I must be the slowest DIYer on the planet. I've been into this for 18 months or so, and have 1 Nixon Dackit built - that's it!! 😀
I've got loads in the pipeline, though, including Rod Elliot's P88 pre, 4 x Nixon Ampkits, one Elliot P?? Active X-over, one DDDac, 4 AXs, etc etc. "Nice collection of PCBs you have there..." 🙄
Eventually, though, eventually......... 😉
But I hope you become dosh-laden in the near future. 🙂
Cheers
Jon
Bias Voltage and Current
Jon, Dear all,
I think you guys are getting very good prices indeed. For example, I paid about the same for my 044's though they were not from Reichelt.
And Jon, count me in for 16 diodes.
And for those of you who might be interested in understanding a bit more about bias voltage and current, and their influence on Mosfet performances in linear applications (I am sure it is not new to many of you), may I suggest a good reference :
Mospower Applications
edited by Ruddy Severns
published by Siliconix
unfortunately out of print, but widely available at University libraries.
Have a nice evening,
Patrick
Jon, Dear all,
I think you guys are getting very good prices indeed. For example, I paid about the same for my 044's though they were not from Reichelt.
And Jon, count me in for 16 diodes.
And for those of you who might be interested in understanding a bit more about bias voltage and current, and their influence on Mosfet performances in linear applications (I am sure it is not new to many of you), may I suggest a good reference :
Mospower Applications
edited by Ruddy Severns
published by Siliconix
unfortunately out of print, but widely available at University libraries.
Have a nice evening,
Patrick
MOQs and Price Breaks
BTW, the MOQ for the 91p BYWs was 600!!
Here are the breaks from Digikey:
Price Break
1
10
100
250
500
1000
2500
5000
10000
Unit Price
1.75000
1.52300
1.13390
0.97196
0.90714
0.86178
0.82938
0.80994
0.79375
Price
1.75
15.23
113.39
242.99
453.57
861.78
2073.46
4049.72
7937.45
Manufacturer Part Number BYW99W-200
Description DIODE FAST REC 200V 35A TO-247
Quantity Available 1188
All prices are in British Pound Sterling and include duty and brokerage fees.
Sorry, formatting is all to ****. I think you can see where the breaks are, though.
Cheers
Jon
I've got another lead I am following - more soon........perhaps.!!
BTW, the MOQ for the 91p BYWs was 600!!
Here are the breaks from Digikey:
Price Break
1
10
100
250
500
1000
2500
5000
10000
Unit Price
1.75000
1.52300
1.13390
0.97196
0.90714
0.86178
0.82938
0.80994
0.79375
Price
1.75
15.23
113.39
242.99
453.57
861.78
2073.46
4049.72
7937.45
Manufacturer Part Number BYW99W-200
Description DIODE FAST REC 200V 35A TO-247
Quantity Available 1188
All prices are in British Pound Sterling and include duty and brokerage fees.
Sorry, formatting is all to ****. I think you can see where the breaks are, though.
Cheers
Jon
I've got another lead I am following - more soon........perhaps.!!
The trannys from airlink are expensive and will go with whatever the rest of you decide, still after +/-23V though to get the 25V for the best operating region of the Fets.
For the rectifiers, in for 16 of the BYW99W-200 please.
Any thoughts on how many Fets? have just read the thread by Blitz on building his 100 watter and he certainly burnt
through a lot of them.
Simon
For the rectifiers, in for 16 of the BYW99W-200 please.
Any thoughts on how many Fets? have just read the thread by Blitz on building his 100 watter and he certainly burnt
through a lot of them.Simon
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