Sorry, I originally posted in the wrong forum....
I am now planning a Dual-Mono Amplifier Design using the Hypex UCD-180AD Digital Class D amplifier from DIYCable.com
Power Supply
Power Cord Volex Shielded 3-Connect (Mouser)
Input IEC Shurter 15A Power Entry/Switch (Mouser)
Filter Schurter 20A Filter Block (Mouser)
Toroid Avel 330VA 30-30 (PartsExpress)
Filter Caps 2X: FilmFoil PolyPro 100nF, 400V (PercyAudio)
Rectifier 2X: Fairchild 27A, 600V IXYS Bridge (PercyAudio)
Power Caps 4X: Nichicon 10KuF, 50V Superthru (PercyAudio)
Amplifier Unit
Filter Caps 2X 100nF 400V (PercyAudio)
2X 100uF 100V Nichicon KZ (PercyAudio)
RC Filter 2X 680nF 400V (PercyAudio)
2X Caddock 1R, 20W (PercyAudio)
Amplifer Hypex UCD-180AD (DIYCable)
Heat Sink DIYCable Aluminum Heat Sink (DIYCable)
Each Amp has an outboard power supply and the filtering capability is primarily in the second unit, next to the Amp Boards. Each power supply will have dual recification rails.
I used the guidelines on TNT-Audio to develop the Monoblocks and used the examples on DecibelDungeon for inspiration on Design. Does anyone have experience using the Hypex amps in this manner?
I am now planning a Dual-Mono Amplifier Design using the Hypex UCD-180AD Digital Class D amplifier from DIYCable.com
Power Supply
Power Cord Volex Shielded 3-Connect (Mouser)
Input IEC Shurter 15A Power Entry/Switch (Mouser)
Filter Schurter 20A Filter Block (Mouser)
Toroid Avel 330VA 30-30 (PartsExpress)
Filter Caps 2X: FilmFoil PolyPro 100nF, 400V (PercyAudio)
Rectifier 2X: Fairchild 27A, 600V IXYS Bridge (PercyAudio)
Power Caps 4X: Nichicon 10KuF, 50V Superthru (PercyAudio)
Amplifier Unit
Filter Caps 2X 100nF 400V (PercyAudio)
2X 100uF 100V Nichicon KZ (PercyAudio)
RC Filter 2X 680nF 400V (PercyAudio)
2X Caddock 1R, 20W (PercyAudio)
Amplifer Hypex UCD-180AD (DIYCable)
Heat Sink DIYCable Aluminum Heat Sink (DIYCable)
Each Amp has an outboard power supply and the filtering capability is primarily in the second unit, next to the Amp Boards. Each power supply will have dual recification rails.
I used the guidelines on TNT-Audio to develop the Monoblocks and used the examples on DecibelDungeon for inspiration on Design. Does anyone have experience using the Hypex amps in this manner?
audioferret said:
No reply from anyone huh? I doubt anybody tried that exact combo.
Looks like you spent some time thinking about all this.. and are opting for some good choices.
As per your 10mF filter caps, I think 50V is cutting it too close and you should likely opt for 63V.
Cheers,
Chris
Parallel Configuration
If I use the capacitors in a 2x2 "four-pack", doesn't the 50v per cap stack into 100v tolerance per rail? I thought using the caps in parallel would fix that? Is 20,000uF per rail overdoing it or should I stick with 20K?
😕
If I use the capacitors in a 2x2 "four-pack", doesn't the 50v per cap stack into 100v tolerance per rail? I thought using the caps in parallel would fix that? Is 20,000uF per rail overdoing it or should I stick with 20K?
😕
Re: Parallel Configuration
Hi,
Paralleled caps: Capacitance adds, two 10mF caps in // is a 20mF cap. If they're both 50V, they're still 50V, they can be safely used with a ~20% margin.
Caps in series: Capacitance divides, two 50V 10mF caps in series can look like a 100V 5mF cap.
"20,000uF per rail overdoing it or should I stick with 20K?"
That's entirely confusing to me. Did you mean stick wtih 10K? Even K is an improper unit, it would be m for milli farad.
Assuming your question was to use 20mF or 10mF (20 000uf or 10 000uF), 10mF is fairly optimal for powering a single channel at a 4 ohm load. For two 4 ohm channels connected to the same supply, double it for 20mF.
In my UCD180 supply, I'm using two 63V 15 000uF caps per rail per channel. It's a stereo setup where both channels share the same PSU, and so the caps are paralleled, giving the equivalent of 30mF per rail in total, with the same 63V blocking capability.
It's recommended you don't go beyond 20mF per rail per channel as it would degrade your power factor, unless you employ some form of power factor correction.
Regards,
Chris
audioferret said:
Hi,
Paralleled caps: Capacitance adds, two 10mF caps in // is a 20mF cap. If they're both 50V, they're still 50V, they can be safely used with a ~20% margin.
Caps in series: Capacitance divides, two 50V 10mF caps in series can look like a 100V 5mF cap.
"20,000uF per rail overdoing it or should I stick with 20K?"
That's entirely confusing to me. Did you mean stick wtih 10K? Even K is an improper unit, it would be m for milli farad.
Assuming your question was to use 20mF or 10mF (20 000uf or 10 000uF), 10mF is fairly optimal for powering a single channel at a 4 ohm load. For two 4 ohm channels connected to the same supply, double it for 20mF.
In my UCD180 supply, I'm using two 63V 15 000uF caps per rail per channel. It's a stereo setup where both channels share the same PSU, and so the caps are paralleled, giving the equivalent of 30mF per rail in total, with the same 63V blocking capability.
It's recommended you don't go beyond 20mF per rail per channel as it would degrade your power factor, unless you employ some form of power factor correction.
Regards,
Chris
Re: Parallel Configuration
50V is 50V - duck when they vent 🙂
if it was that easy to make caps handle 100V, why are the 100V caps so much more expensive? Ther ewouldn't be any need for them, especially since smaller caps are "faster," so everyone would just put banks of cheap small caps in to get the fancy power supplies built. Doesn't work that way (and I have a few vented Blackgates to prove that I tried some dumb things in the past)
Peter
audioferret said:
50V is 50V - duck when they vent 🙂
if it was that easy to make caps handle 100V, why are the 100V caps so much more expensive? Ther ewouldn't be any need for them, especially since smaller caps are "faster," so everyone would just put banks of cheap small caps in to get the fancy power supplies built. Doesn't work that way (and I have a few vented Blackgates to prove that I tried some dumb things in the past)
Peter
Re: Re: Parallel Configuration
Vented black gates..... ooooooohhhh....... sorry. Cost of learning eh?
pburke said:
Vented black gates..... ooooooohhhh....... sorry. Cost of learning eh?
Re: Re: Re: Parallel Configuration
hooked up the battery the wrong way on the old DDDAC - no fuse, no diodes to make sure I am not an idiot - splat - lucky it wasn't a 10000uF power supply BG 🙂
classd4sure said:
hooked up the battery the wrong way on the old DDDAC - no fuse, no diodes to make sure I am not an idiot - splat - lucky it wasn't a 10000uF power supply BG 🙂
No I'm not, I'm using 1 of those caps per rail per channel, but they're in // since it's single supply. Just stay between 10 and 20mF per rail per channel anyway, hope that error didn't confuse you.
Re-Thinking Caps
Hmmm....
OK, these are some options. I would like to keep my cap costs to about $80 per amp, but I am willing to be flexible. I am pretty sure I want to use Nichicon Great Supply Capacitors
(See Percyaudio.com)
Option 1: 4x 10,000uF, 63V capacitors per power supply, set in a 4-pack series/parallel configuration.
Option 2: 4x 6,800uF, 63V Capacitors per supply, set in a 6-pack series/parallel Configuration. (Super-Through not Available?)
Option 3: 2x 15,000uF, 63V Capacitors, parallel Configuration
Option 1 appears to have a 20,000uF total rating with 63V tolerance. This will cost $56 in Gold series or $88 in Super-Through
Option 2 appears to have 21,000uF total rating with 63V tolerance. This will cost $42 in Gold Series
Option 3 appears to have only 15,000uf total rating with 63V tolerance. This will cost $47 and $76 in Gold and Super Ratings respectively.
Question:
1. What setup is the most cost-effective without sacrificing too-much quality? At first glance, option 1 appears the best in performace, option 2 appears best in cost, and 3 appears best in space.
2. Has anyone compared the Gold Series to Super-Through? I have seen the stats on Nichicon's Web site, but how are the listening perceptions?
3. Is there a better option out there? Should I be looking at different caps?
😕
Hmmm....
OK, these are some options. I would like to keep my cap costs to about $80 per amp, but I am willing to be flexible. I am pretty sure I want to use Nichicon Great Supply Capacitors
(See Percyaudio.com)
Option 1: 4x 10,000uF, 63V capacitors per power supply, set in a 4-pack series/parallel configuration.
Option 2: 4x 6,800uF, 63V Capacitors per supply, set in a 6-pack series/parallel Configuration. (Super-Through not Available?)
Option 3: 2x 15,000uF, 63V Capacitors, parallel Configuration
Option 1 appears to have a 20,000uF total rating with 63V tolerance. This will cost $56 in Gold series or $88 in Super-Through
Option 2 appears to have 21,000uF total rating with 63V tolerance. This will cost $42 in Gold Series
Option 3 appears to have only 15,000uf total rating with 63V tolerance. This will cost $47 and $76 in Gold and Super Ratings respectively.
Question:
1. What setup is the most cost-effective without sacrificing too-much quality? At first glance, option 1 appears the best in performace, option 2 appears best in cost, and 3 appears best in space.
2. Has anyone compared the Gold Series to Super-Through? I have seen the stats on Nichicon's Web site, but how are the listening perceptions?
3. Is there a better option out there? Should I be looking at different caps?
😕
audioferret,
im having those same questions about caps. im trying to keep my parts cost cheap, so im looking at some other nichicons (not audio grades) for like half or 1/4 of the price. im still trying to decide if its worth the extra cash.
have you heard a UCD module yet? im like 20 minutes away from you, if you want, you can come over and listen to mine.
im having those same questions about caps. im trying to keep my parts cost cheap, so im looking at some other nichicons (not audio grades) for like half or 1/4 of the price. im still trying to decide if its worth the extra cash.
have you heard a UCD module yet? im like 20 minutes away from you, if you want, you can come over and listen to mine.
More like 5
Quote: "have you heard a UCD module yet? im like 20 minutes away from you, if you want, you can come over and listen to mine..."
I live by Harper lake off of McCaslin Blvd. I had sent you an e-mail hoping to see your setup, e-mail me with a good time. You got plans this weekend?
😎
Quote: "have you heard a UCD module yet? im like 20 minutes away from you, if you want, you can come over and listen to mine..."
I live by Harper lake off of McCaslin Blvd. I had sent you an e-mail hoping to see your setup, e-mail me with a good time. You got plans this weekend?
😎
im having serious problems with my email...
i havent gotten a LOT of emails lately it seems.
im free this weekend for the most part. ill send you an email with my phone number...
i havent gotten a LOT of emails lately it seems.
im free this weekend for the most part. ill send you an email with my phone number...
For cap choices, I am going to try Fischer&Tausch big caps, as recomended on the original TNT PS article. It was the best cost/benefit I could find, given the datasheet info, the cap size and recomendations... Slit-foils were hard to find online, and sikorels were impossibly expensive...
Can't report on performance yet... Doing a pair of Orion speakers, and both the drivers and the ucd amplifiers haven't arrived yet...
Allan
Can't report on performance yet... Doing a pair of Orion speakers, and both the drivers and the ucd amplifiers haven't arrived yet...
Allan
cowanrg is a great host!
Yesterday, cowanrg treated me to an audition on his personal system. Lets just say that the personal system of someone who is a dealer for home theatre equipment is awe-inspiring. Very nice setup.
We also went over his amplifier designs. They were pretty cool to see in person. Excellent workshop too. I am now redesigning my monoblock with changes inspired by cowanrq's layout. It was really helpful to see his designs in person, I am much more confident about what I am doing.
Time to get working...
Yesterday, cowanrg treated me to an audition on his personal system. Lets just say that the personal system of someone who is a dealer for home theatre equipment is awe-inspiring. Very nice setup.
We also went over his amplifier designs. They were pretty cool to see in person. Excellent workshop too. I am now redesigning my monoblock with changes inspired by cowanrq's layout. It was really helpful to see his designs in person, I am much more confident about what I am doing.
Time to get working...
Re: cowanrg is a great host!
thanks for coming over. ill keep you and everyone else up to date on my progress. hopefully i will have these done soon!
audioferret said:
thanks for coming over. ill keep you and everyone else up to date on my progress. hopefully i will have these done soon!
Capacitor selection
I now have it narrowed down to the following capacitor setups:
1. Two Nichicon 10,000uF, 63V Super-Through Capacitors
20,000uf Total, $43.90 from percyaudio.com
2. Four Nichicon 6,800uF, 63V Gold Capacitors
27,200uF Total, $27.80 from percyaudio.com
Which configuration will make a better supply? I am tempted by the cheaper price tag on the smaller capacitors, but the Super-Through are supposed to be better quality. They go not make a super-through for the 6,800uF caps. Will the higher-grade caps make a significant difference? Each monoblock will have its own toroid, dual recifiers, and a complete output filter section as seen in tnt_audio.com
I now have it narrowed down to the following capacitor setups:
1. Two Nichicon 10,000uF, 63V Super-Through Capacitors
20,000uf Total, $43.90 from percyaudio.com
2. Four Nichicon 6,800uF, 63V Gold Capacitors
27,200uF Total, $27.80 from percyaudio.com
Which configuration will make a better supply? I am tempted by the cheaper price tag on the smaller capacitors, but the Super-Through are supposed to be better quality. They go not make a super-through for the 6,800uF caps. Will the higher-grade caps make a significant difference? Each monoblock will have its own toroid, dual recifiers, and a complete output filter section as seen in tnt_audio.com
oops!
Audioferret,
My apologies for prematurely sending the last post. What I was going to say was that your option 1 was exactly what I used for the UCD 180 amp I built for my brother-inlaw. They sound very good, and I have never liked the sound of caps in parallel and avoid that option where I can.
Rob.
Audioferret,
My apologies for prematurely sending the last post. What I was going to say was that your option 1 was exactly what I used for the UCD 180 amp I built for my brother-inlaw. They sound very good, and I have never liked the sound of caps in parallel and avoid that option where I can.
Rob.
ampmeter?
I am also interested in putting an ampmeter on the front of these monos. I like the style used on Red Wine Audio's equipment. Where is a good place to get inexpensive ampmaters for this purpose? I saw the ones on Mouser at $25-40 a piece - too much...
I am also interested in putting an ampmeter on the front of these monos. I like the style used on Red Wine Audio's equipment. Where is a good place to get inexpensive ampmaters for this purpose? I saw the ones on Mouser at $25-40 a piece - too much...
what's an ampmeter?
if you're talking about an output meter that actually is accurate, you will have to spend a little more
cheap:
http://www.designnotes.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=K4307&Category_Code=auha
better:
http://www.thel-audioworld.de/module/Vu/vu.htm
more stuff:
http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=371
I don't know if any of them work, but the German stuff looks pretty solid (and expensive)
Peter
if you're talking about an output meter that actually is accurate, you will have to spend a little more
cheap:
http://www.designnotes.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=K4307&Category_Code=auha
better:
http://www.thel-audioworld.de/module/Vu/vu.htm
more stuff:
http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=371
I don't know if any of them work, but the German stuff looks pretty solid (and expensive)
Peter
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