I see. And actually some coaxials have a proper horn for the tweeter
Like the Altec Duplex i mean. Also the woofer cone moves with music ... i guess not the best behaviour for a tweeter horn 😱
I love the Altec but here is very rare and expensive and even if found not always in good shape i guess
😉
yes i think it could be perfect I think i could live without the last octave down i will miss something during a toccata e fuga maybe but for all other music would be just fine
I am checking the price. But also the 2 ways drivers solution starts to be viable It depends on the actual drivers selected 🙄
Hi thanks but i am not sure to understand. You mean in the crossing range ?
I tend to like the idea of a speaker with a narrow dispersion. My listening room is not treated and the reflections are everywhere. For instance i am getting much better virtual soundstage with my desktop pc system 😱🙁
It is limited in FR ... clearly, but the image is very focused ... and i even get some depth in the sound image I am surprised
I guess this is due to less walls reflections ? 🙄
When i see pictures of very very expensive systems placed in not acoustically treated room i understand the meaning of audio fetishism ... the equipment is more important than the music performance.
I prefer listening in the dark
... i hate to see the equipment and the lights on I get distracted
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If you want maximum bang per buck in a 2way (my favourite topic), could be that you'd find this combo interesting:
Fane 12-300
+
Faital 3FE25 (or the 3FE22)
Allows for relatively low xo, I'd probably settle in the 4-700hz range somewhere pending on design implementation.
No, I disagree.
The reason for adding more "ways" is to improve power handling, and I find that a good 2-way can provide enough SPL for domestic spaces.
My current speakers (which I've been using for over a year now, still in their prototype boxes) are 8" 2-ways with a 1" compression driver. The crossover is at 950Hz. Given that I used to swap/change/modify my speakers on an almost weekly basis, having the same speakers for over a year is pretty much a miracle.
They sound great, go loud, and don't suffer from nearby reflections too much. I cannot ask for more.
For a direct-radiators-only, then a really good dome tweeter will be needed to meet an 8" woofer. It is possible, though. With a fixed amount of money to spend, I'd rather use a couple of really good drivers than three or four mediocre ones.
Chris
Impressive extension for the Faital ... so no tweeter needed ? impressive indeed Thanks !
Attachments
i agree. Some 2-ways can shake the walls ...
i see ... less ways but better in quality. The more i think about it the more i am leaning towards a 3 ways ... for home listening when space does not allow for big monitors i think it is the best solution.
If you're allergic to compression drivers & horns, then yeah, I can see why a 3-way would make sense.
I'd go 10/4/1", closed box.
Chris
I'd go 10/4/1", closed box.
Chris
The popular notion of a coaxial being a "bad horn for the tweeter because it moves" is usually nonsense. I use a 12" coaxial crossed over to a bass driver at ~300Hz. Even at high volume I can barely feel the 12" driver moving. It's displacement is surely less than a fraction of a mm.
The real problem with coaxial drivers is that the "horn" is an afterthought. The cone is designed to make a good midwoofer and the magnet assembly is designed to meet it's Q, BL, and Xmax goals - often leading to an ill designed throat for the CD.
The real problem with coaxial drivers is that the "horn" is an afterthought. The cone is designed to make a good midwoofer and the magnet assembly is designed to meet it's Q, BL, and Xmax goals - often leading to an ill designed throat for the CD.
Hi ! thanks a lot for the valuable advice. So with a 4" cone a crossing point around 200Hz ? that is a very critical design choice for me
Actually the very 1st choice for a 3 way is cone or dome mid. I am still very undecided.
Hi ! thank you very much for your very useful advice. So the secret could be to cut the coaxial woofer a little high so that its movement is minimal ? very interesting. But this also implies a 3 ways design. But i see the point very clearly.
Nevertheless i have to say the world is full of people who listen from 12 and even 15" Tannoy dual concentrics in 2 ways systems ... and they seem to be quite happy with their systems.
i see. Still coaxial are very popular I have taken out the drivers from a pair of Tannoy 609 and discharged the cabinets. When they were working i liked the sound. The cabinets had a nice shape but the material looked not optimal. I like very massive cabinets a lot. The first thing i check is the weight ... light weight is not good. When a woofer is involved of course.
I think that it does not matter what you choose, as long as you make a good effort in implementation.
There's no single correct answer, there is no black and white, only a myriad shades of grey and millions of colours.
There are some good coaxial drivers, I was mostly sort of objecting a bit that it is a simple and easy solution.
There are also many other very good solutions, depends on a lot of things.
I think the absolute most important thing to consider is:
What kind of shape and size would you like the speakers to be?
(Compact/bookshelf/floorstanders/refrigerator-sized 😀)
If you have the answer to that, you can proceed with:
Is it more important to be able to play loud, or to play low frequencies?
(It is possible I remember this wrong, but here goes: Very rough guideline for same SPL/W: double box size for each 1/3rd reduction in design FS, IE same SPL/W 20hz box would be twice as big as a 30hz box. This is NOT a fixed rule! Just a very simple, very general guideline approximation!)
When you have decided on size and frequency extension vs SPL:
What is the desired parts cost and build complexity?
Edit:
I am hoping the answers to these questions will automatically narrow down your options, making it easier to decide.
There's no single correct answer, there is no black and white, only a myriad shades of grey and millions of colours.
There are some good coaxial drivers, I was mostly sort of objecting a bit that it is a simple and easy solution.
There are also many other very good solutions, depends on a lot of things.
I think the absolute most important thing to consider is:
What kind of shape and size would you like the speakers to be?
(Compact/bookshelf/floorstanders/refrigerator-sized 😀)
If you have the answer to that, you can proceed with:
Is it more important to be able to play loud, or to play low frequencies?
(It is possible I remember this wrong, but here goes: Very rough guideline for same SPL/W: double box size for each 1/3rd reduction in design FS, IE same SPL/W 20hz box would be twice as big as a 30hz box. This is NOT a fixed rule! Just a very simple, very general guideline approximation!)
When you have decided on size and frequency extension vs SPL:
What is the desired parts cost and build complexity?
Edit:
I am hoping the answers to these questions will automatically narrow down your options, making it easier to decide.
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Well, the reason your 12" is barely moving is because it's running above 300Hz.
Run it down to 30Hz, and I expect there'll be some cone movement.
I'd probably go for more like 400Hz from a 10" to a 4".
The talk of coaxials is interesting. If you're inclined in that way, I can recommend the KEF HTS3001SE speakers. Use the 4.5" coaxial with a good bass driver, and you'll have a very nice system.
Of course, PA coaxials use compression drivers, and I thought we were avoiding those.
Chris
AFAIK everything goes here 🙂
Do not think there's been any mentioning of specific limitations as of yet.
SEOS15?
From the first post:
The Kef speakers I mentioned previously fall into those parameters.
I still like compression drivers, though. Keeping the sound off the side walls is really helpful IMO.
Chris
The Kef speakers I mentioned previously fall into those parameters.
I still like compression drivers, though. Keeping the sound off the side walls is really helpful IMO.
Chris
Yeah, I've heard more CD drivers I really liked than more conventional domes...
There are some good dome tweets about, and some pretty cheap, but a good compression driver is a different experience.
Still happy with your Faital coax?
There are some good dome tweets about, and some pretty cheap, but a good compression driver is a different experience.
Still happy with your Faital coax?
My current HiFi system is here: FIR Processing | Grimshaw Audio
The Faital coaxials are PA speakers: New Speakers
Which sound very good, but don't achieve much LF extension in those boxes. With considerable EQ, they get to 70Hz. Fine for spoken word and acoustic music, but a couple of subwoofers are needed for full-range reinforcement.
I expect a floorstanding ML-TL with those coaxials would do well, but I like my HiFi speakers too much to try it.
Chris
The Faital coaxials are PA speakers: New Speakers
Which sound very good, but don't achieve much LF extension in those boxes. With considerable EQ, they get to 70Hz. Fine for spoken word and acoustic music, but a couple of subwoofers are needed for full-range reinforcement.
I expect a floorstanding ML-TL with those coaxials would do well, but I like my HiFi speakers too much to try it.
Chris
I see ... and i see this as a problem. The choice. 😱
But i understand that everything will be compromised also by the room. I like many people tend to underestimate the impact of the room on the listening. Better to go with a decent solution and start thinking to some kind of acoustic treatment instead.
I have watched with a lot of interest the building of the listening room at PSAudio facilities. They did a very extensive work on the room before placing the playback system.
If the room is compromised that fix a limit ...
i think that they should be higher than wider ... tower like ...
The coaxial will not be covering all the range ... i feel a woofer is really needed
So a 3 ways in the end ... bass plus satellite
i lived long with small speakers ... the 1st time i heard the bass i understood what i was missing ... like listen to a small radio instead of being at a concert
The live effect was very evident with the bigger speakers ... very
Maybe Mr Klipsch was very right ?
Thanks a lot. I think i have listened to them in an HT set up and they were very good indeed. I will look for them ... i guess they are out of production now ? it was many years ago ...
Yes! i feel the same ... just to get some indications i would like to put foam rings around my present tweeters and listen. In order to control the dispersion i see many manufacturers using waveguides these days ... a reflect sound could have some kind of delay respect the direct sound.
The only echoes i like are those generated by the Pink Floyd.
No problem. Yep, those speakers came out a while ago. You might be able to find something more recent - I just kept an eye on eBay until something useful came up at a price I was happy to pay. The "tangerine" tweeter waveguide is something they've kept with later models, so I decided to try to find a model that included those.
Chris
Chris
Thanks again. The last generation of Kef coaxials has got rave reviews ... like the cute ls50s
I wonder if they do have that tangerine guide you mention
