Today I undug an ugly experimental box that I built 17 years ago. It is using a JBL 2206 in a non B4 alignment and a 2344 bi-radial horn (no I won't sell them) with a 2426 driver.
I never managed to make two nicely built cabinets for those drivers until now. In the next few days I will go and order some wood.
The box is slightly larger than needed for a B4 tuning and also tuned lower than B4. This does of course trade efficiency and flatness of the frequency response for lower extension. Because the system is intended to be driven actively the latter doesen't matter that much.
I also have two JBL 2226 drivers that I bought more than 10 years ago. Some PA guy and I made a large order together although I didn't know what I would do with them back then.
Having read good stuff about the eighteensound XT 1464 waveguide on this and other forums I might probably try a combination with this waveguide on a Faital HF 146 driver together with the JBL 2226.
I will also use a lower tuned alignment with the known trade offs.
OTOH it would be tempting to use something like a TAD 1603 which can go quite low with a natural B4 tuning. With a B6 tuning or another version of equalised lower tuning it can even go down to the mid twenties. But they would of course cost an arm and two legs.
The JBL isn't the most modern drivers but it is still a very good one even by today's standards. With its edge-wound aluminium voice coil and its distortin reducing features it can still be regarded as quite high-tech.
Modern drivers like a B&C 15NBX100 would offer LF extension that is somewhere between the JBL's and the TAD's at an interesting price. But no distortion figures are published for it. But it does have distortion reducing features like T-shaped polepiece and shorting ring.
So I am actually undecided whether I will use the JBLs with a modern waveguide or if I would go for another 15". Maybe I know it after sleeping on it.
Will also post a picture of the ugly prototype with the 12".
Regards
Charles
I never managed to make two nicely built cabinets for those drivers until now. In the next few days I will go and order some wood.
The box is slightly larger than needed for a B4 tuning and also tuned lower than B4. This does of course trade efficiency and flatness of the frequency response for lower extension. Because the system is intended to be driven actively the latter doesen't matter that much.
I also have two JBL 2226 drivers that I bought more than 10 years ago. Some PA guy and I made a large order together although I didn't know what I would do with them back then.
Having read good stuff about the eighteensound XT 1464 waveguide on this and other forums I might probably try a combination with this waveguide on a Faital HF 146 driver together with the JBL 2226.
I will also use a lower tuned alignment with the known trade offs.
OTOH it would be tempting to use something like a TAD 1603 which can go quite low with a natural B4 tuning. With a B6 tuning or another version of equalised lower tuning it can even go down to the mid twenties. But they would of course cost an arm and two legs.
The JBL isn't the most modern drivers but it is still a very good one even by today's standards. With its edge-wound aluminium voice coil and its distortin reducing features it can still be regarded as quite high-tech.
Modern drivers like a B&C 15NBX100 would offer LF extension that is somewhere between the JBL's and the TAD's at an interesting price. But no distortion figures are published for it. But it does have distortion reducing features like T-shaped polepiece and shorting ring.
So I am actually undecided whether I will use the JBLs with a modern waveguide or if I would go for another 15". Maybe I know it after sleeping on it.
Will also post a picture of the ugly prototype with the 12".
Regards
Charles
Charles
I look forward to your JBL2344. I have the smaller 2342 with a JBL 2425. Haven't done much work with it except for some basic measurements.
Mike
I look forward to your JBL2344. I have the smaller 2342 with a JBL 2425. Haven't done much work with it except for some basic measurements.
Mike
Yes, the 2425 was the one originally used in the 4430 monitor.
Although I like my 2426 the 2425 could probably be the better one. But those are details about which the guys at the Lansing heritage forum fight/discuss about ......
Regards
Charles
Although I like my 2426 the 2425 could probably be the better one. But those are details about which the guys at the Lansing heritage forum fight/discuss about ......
Regards
Charles
Yes, the 2425 was the one originally used in the 4430 monitor.
Although I like my 2426 the 2425 could probably be the better one. But those are details about which the guys at the Lansing heritage forum fight/discuss about ......
Regards
Charles
Although I like my 2426 the 2425 could probably be the better one. But those are details about which the guys at the Lansing heritage forum fight/discuss about ......
Regards
Charles
Ah yes, the 4430. I remember that speaker distinctly. The first time I heard it was in a recording studio that I was using for some soundtrack production. That was way back in the 80s.
Ok here is a picture of that prototype. In the foreground there is one of my two 2226 drivers. The box is around 50 liters and tuned to 45 Hz approx. In the final one I will probably go for a slightly larger box with slightly lower tuning. This would allow a little more extension at the cost ofefficiency.
I was listening to it for about two hours. The effortlessness is quite addictive and I was listening loud enough to trigger the amp's thermal overload protection. It seems that it doesn't like to be tortured in bridge-mode !
From what I have heard what this single box with a 2206 is capable of doing in my living room (with the help some EQing of course) - I think the even more potent 2226 would be enough for the planned bigger box with a XT 1464.
While there are drivers around that are more modern and sexier than that 2226 one must say that it is still a serious no-nonsense product. The haptics is first-rate to say the least.
The crossover I built in 17 years ago was a pre made one by Monacor. It was actually a three way crossover from which I disconnected the tweeter branch. I also removed the low-pass components from the mid-range branch and connected the tweeter to it. I used a resistive voltage divider between crossover and HF driver with an additional cap - used for EQing the drop caused by the CD properties of the horn. It is in fact exactly that type of crossover one shouldn't use at all because it does by no means take the driver properties into account.
I am quite tired by now. Otherwise I would have taken the sigma studio software and an DSP evaluation board into service to generate a better prototype crossover in digital active form. Maybe tomorrow .....
Regards
Charles
P.S. The wite thing on the dustcap is not sone kind of damage but some spider web whioch I will have to remove using a soft paintbrush.
I was listening to it for about two hours. The effortlessness is quite addictive and I was listening loud enough to trigger the amp's thermal overload protection. It seems that it doesn't like to be tortured in bridge-mode !
From what I have heard what this single box with a 2206 is capable of doing in my living room (with the help some EQing of course) - I think the even more potent 2226 would be enough for the planned bigger box with a XT 1464.
While there are drivers around that are more modern and sexier than that 2226 one must say that it is still a serious no-nonsense product. The haptics is first-rate to say the least.
The crossover I built in 17 years ago was a pre made one by Monacor. It was actually a three way crossover from which I disconnected the tweeter branch. I also removed the low-pass components from the mid-range branch and connected the tweeter to it. I used a resistive voltage divider between crossover and HF driver with an additional cap - used for EQing the drop caused by the CD properties of the horn. It is in fact exactly that type of crossover one shouldn't use at all because it does by no means take the driver properties into account.
I am quite tired by now. Otherwise I would have taken the sigma studio software and an DSP evaluation board into service to generate a better prototype crossover in digital active form. Maybe tomorrow .....
Regards
Charles
P.S. The wite thing on the dustcap is not sone kind of damage but some spider web whioch I will have to remove using a soft paintbrush.
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Be prepared to either swamp the network with resistors or notch filters, if you want "hifi" out of it. The 2425/2426 are nice drivers with high power handling and output, but don't try to force 15k out of them, and know that you'll be dealing with a peaky mess of an impedance curve to work against.
BTW: you can mess with the rear cup volume to tune your highpass filter pole.
BTW: you can mess with the rear cup volume to tune your highpass filter pole.
Sorry - I completely forgot to mention that I will go for an active solution. That way it would also be easier to "notch out" some peaks.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
I'd use the 1464.
My 2 only beefs is that the 2206 sound like an old man getting out of bed until you have maybe 10 watts into it (very rugged suspension built to take 300watts rms), and specs necessitate a subwoofer (qts .32 and Fs 52hz).
My 2 only beefs is that the 2206 sound like an old man getting out of bed until you have maybe 10 watts into it (very rugged suspension built to take 300watts rms), and specs necessitate a subwoofer (qts .32 and Fs 52hz).
I will do so but togehter with a 15" (most probably the 2226).
I am still hooked on the sound of the Klipschorn copies that I once had. They didn't go very deep as well but what they did they did very cleanly and with autority.
Regards
Charles
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Yup.
seen the raptor ?
10" mtm using the 1464.
"first horn I've heard that I liked in a looooong time."
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?35812-The-Raptor-a-10-quot-MTM
my buddy said that it has no sound.
The 18sound nd1460a pdf on that horn looks good, maybe notch down 1-2khz an cross 24db@800hz.
http://www.eighteensound.it/Portals/0/PDFs/ND1460A.PDF
directivity seems to let go below 1.5khz.
0005 XT1464 - XT1464 : Eighteen Sound - professional loudspeakers
with a mouth 12" x 15", I'd like to cross to a 12" at 1.2khz.
Good luck, I look forward to a build with it.
I'm hoping to try a 2384 horn this week.
I'm a double 15 fan.
Norman
seen the raptor ?
10" mtm using the 1464.
"first horn I've heard that I liked in a looooong time."
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?35812-The-Raptor-a-10-quot-MTM
my buddy said that it has no sound.
The 18sound nd1460a pdf on that horn looks good, maybe notch down 1-2khz an cross 24db@800hz.
http://www.eighteensound.it/Portals/0/PDFs/ND1460A.PDF
directivity seems to let go below 1.5khz.
0005 XT1464 - XT1464 : Eighteen Sound - professional loudspeakers
with a mouth 12" x 15", I'd like to cross to a 12" at 1.2khz.
Good luck, I look forward to a build with it.
I'm hoping to try a 2384 horn this week.
I'm a double 15 fan.
Norman
I have seen the Raptor on the web. It looks dangerous !
I will have a look at the nd1460a. Someone on this forum also had good experiences with the Faital Pro HF 144. There is a newer version of it, the HF 164 which has a little better FR smoothness than the HF 144.
I think I would also love a double 15" but there is someone else around me who doesen't share this opinion with me. 😉
Regards
Charles
I will have a look at the nd1460a. Someone on this forum also had good experiences with the Faital Pro HF 144. There is a newer version of it, the HF 164 which has a little better FR smoothness than the HF 144.
I think I would also love a double 15" but there is someone else around me who doesen't share this opinion with me. 😉
Regards
Charles
The 1480 seems to be the ferrite brother of the 1460, isn't it ? How about the Titanium version of the 1460 ? Does it sound harsh to the golden eared ?
I know there are people who don't like the JBL TI drivers for instance due to allegedly sounding harsh but to me the 2426 for instance sounds quite smooth. But maybe my age is helping me in that respect ! 😉
Regards
Charles
I know there are people who don't like the JBL TI drivers for instance due to allegedly sounding harsh but to me the 2426 for instance sounds quite smooth. But maybe my age is helping me in that respect ! 😉
Regards
Charles
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When you consult the data sheets of the eighteensound HF drivers there is no mentioning of any copper demodulation ring either.
OTOH from the Faital Datasheet one can at least see that they have an underhung motor with quite some Xmax - meaning that one will stay within a small percentage of its linear excursion - even at loud domestic listening levels.
Regards
Charles
Had another look at the data sheet of the HF 146. The don't say anything about a copper or aluminium shorting ring. But they do however publish an impedance curve:
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/files/HF146/8/HF146_impedance_8.gif
From the very flat portion above the resonances I would guess that it has also (a) shorting ring(s).
regards
Charles
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/files/HF146/8/HF146_impedance_8.gif
From the very flat portion above the resonances I would guess that it has also (a) shorting ring(s).
regards
Charles
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That looks really nice ! I will probably go for a similar design unlike the prototype which is more "PA style".
BTW: That prototype case that I made in quick and dirty fashion 17 years ago does definitley have some weaknesses: After torturing the speaker last night with some Chuck Mangione, Stanley Clarke and Dream Theater - some glue joint on the back-side gave in and now it is rattling when tortured. But that doesn't matter. But it is definitely a sign for what the driver is capable of. It is also a sign that age and maturity do not cecessarily correlate. 😀
Regards
Charles
BTW: That prototype case that I made in quick and dirty fashion 17 years ago does definitley have some weaknesses: After torturing the speaker last night with some Chuck Mangione, Stanley Clarke and Dream Theater - some glue joint on the back-side gave in and now it is rattling when tortured. But that doesn't matter. But it is definitely a sign for what the driver is capable of. It is also a sign that age and maturity do not cecessarily correlate. 😀
Regards
Charles
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eek, I don't like those peaks (resonances).
Not being a pinching dispersion, I'd expect the drop in the high end (similar to a plane-wave response).
I thought the 2342 had no slot, but I was wrong, it's the small version.
People liked the optimized aperature horns from jbl better than 2344/2342.
The QSC HPR122 WG looks to be fun, but unobtanium ?
The faital pro looks good, so long as you can live with a tractrix dispersion and more color than a conical.
Cornscala Style D | Critesspeakers.com
Norman
Not being a pinching dispersion, I'd expect the drop in the high end (similar to a plane-wave response).
I thought the 2342 had no slot, but I was wrong, it's the small version.
People liked the optimized aperature horns from jbl better than 2344/2342.
The QSC HPR122 WG looks to be fun, but unobtanium ?
The faital pro looks good, so long as you can live with a tractrix dispersion and more color than a conical.
Cornscala Style D | Critesspeakers.com
Norman
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